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01:01:10 70.36 |
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01:01:24 84.82 |
Title Slate: The Eleventh Hour #219, Growing Up Gay, Rec: 6/22/89, Dir: Andrew Wilk
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01:01:56 116.87 |
Funding for show by announcer and overlay The Eleventh Hour graphic,.
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01:02:12 132.39 |
The Eleventh Hour graphic and show opener.
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01:02:33 153.67 |
Host Robert Lipsyte in studio welcomes viewers to the show and introduces himself.
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01:02:49 169.33 |
Host Lipsyte talking about tonight's topic, the confusion, shame and fear of "Growing up Gay" in today's society, and the desperate struggle if you can't confide in friends and family.
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01:02:59 179.45 |
Host Lipsyte introduces his first guests, members of the Gay and Lesbian Youth of New York; Tom Approbato; David Nunez; and Frances Miguez
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01:03:21 201.94 |
INTERVIEW
Robert Lipsyte: when did you know that you were gay? Tom Approbato 3:24 When did I know that I was gay? Or when did I first realized I had feelings? Robert Lipsyte 3:28 Is there a difference? Tom Approbato 3:30 there's a big difference for me because I first realized that I had attractions towards men when I was seven. And I wouldn't actually label myself gay. until I was about 11, or 12 is when I actually began to associate the word gay with myself, except the term that I wanted to use then was bisexual, because I couldn't actually say, Well, I'm gay. So I confided in a few friends who said, Well, maybe I'm bisexual at the most. And that's just because of things that, you know, experimenting and things like that. So I wasn't actually sure. When I actually labeled myself gay and said, Yes, I am gay. I was 15. Robert Lipsyte 4:10 And that's, I mean, that's a decision that's, you've come through something at that point. Tom Approbato 4:15 Yeah, I'd gone through a lot of help in dealing with my family, and dealing with my friends and dealing with my own emotions. And I finally just came forward and said, I, I am who I am, and I am gay. Robert Lipsyte 4:29 David was at hell for you is that? David Nunez 4:31 Yeah, for me, it was perhaps just as difficult except I think the hardest part with me was that I didn't come out till after I graduated from high school. And I wish I knew about you know, GLYNY gay and lesbian youth of New York while I was in high school because I felt very much alone and thought that I was the only one that had these feelings. When there were so many so many people around me. were feeling Robert Lipsyte 4:56 Where did you grow up. David Nunez 4:57 I grew up here in New York, Robert Lipsyte 4:59 And even then you felt isolated and alone? David Nunez 5:01 Yeah, that's the whole ironic part that me being in New York, sort of like one of the gay meccas in the country, and yet, I didn't know enough to look out for the gay resource. You know, that's available here in the city, Robert Lipsyte 5:15 Frances, you grew up in Florida, it's kind of further away from, again, mainstream, when when did you first have these these feelings that led you to a thought, Frances Miguez 5:23 Well, what I was about eight years old, I start feeling it took me a long time to accept that up to this year, it was very hard for me to accept that I was a lesbian. And it just like kind of brought itself to a point by moving away from home. And by moving away from that narrow minded kind of ideas that I had grown up with. Robert Lipsyte 5:43 Tom, when when did you tell your mom and dad Tom Approbato 5:48 I came out to, to my mother and father when I was 16? Robert Lipsyte 5:51 How that how that worked out? Tom Approbato 5:54 Surprisingly, very, very well. My mother and father have been very accepting for me. I sat them both down after taking them out to dinner and hinted about for about a half hour on what I had been feeling. And I'd been dropping hints for a while since then. And I said, Do you have any idea what I was talking about? What I'm getting at? And my mother said, raised her hand, she was being cute. And said, I know. And it's okay. She said, Well tell your father because I understand. And so right. So my father was just looking at me, and I said, Dad, he says, I love you, son. I say I love you, too. And I'm gay. Just roll it all out to make it as painless as possible. And he said, is that it? said, Yeah, he said, that's what's been bothering you. He said, Yeah, is I don't care if you're a black, white, gay, straight, or anything else, you're my son, I love you. With that, I started crying, because here I was ready to deal with them and deal with all of their fears. And they're not understanding. And I had all this built up inside me. And here it was, I met with the love of my parents, which is something I didn't know that I would actually be getting. |
01:07:10 430.39 |
INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
Robert Lipsyte 7:11 David was that lucky and easy for you? David Nunez 7:14 Well, with me, I'm not really out to my parents yet. And I discussed it with my father, because he found some, he found a native, which is a gay news paper And he talked to me about it. And basically, we went through the whole debate that it's, there's a mental disorder that is, you know, anti, against a society. And, you know, it's, you know, religion, that it's abnormal. And I just had a debate with him trying to make him understand. But basically, we're from South America, and I guess he has too much of his old, you know, old country standards that I, you know, I think I just have to accept that he would not change his ways, just like I can't change my ways. Robert Lipsyte 8:00 Frances, you're not out to parents yet? Are you dreading doing this or Frances Miguez 8:05 I'm not dreading it. I'm not really looking forward to it either. With my parents, my father is a deacon in the Pentecostal church that I grew up in, and my mom's a teacher there. So it's, they're really religious, and there are so far away that right now, I couldn't tell them over the phone. And I don't know how I'm gonna deal with it when I do go home for vacation? And how to talk to them about it, or if I'll talk to them about it at all? Because I'm just not sure if what the reaction would be, because there are so many different reactions like with Tom and with David with others, the reaction is different in every case, there's no sure way to tell how the parent will come to understand that, Robert Lipsyte 8:52 Yeah, Tom, in terms of of coming out to parents, this seems like the kind of the critical, a critical moment, ah, Tom Approbato 9:02 Yeah, it really is. When dealing with your parents, you'd like for instance, that there's a lot of different things you have to prepare yourself for, and try and prepare them for wondering whether or not they're going to actually accept you wondering whether they're going to be angry or enraged or break through a religion in your face throw. While you're the firstborn, throw anything in your face, they can come up with millions of excuses. And a lot of times it's very selfish on the parents part, because there, it's always, I think the parents role, in least in their mind sometimes, that they're going to live their lives through you, as opposed to sharing the lives with you. And that I think, is one of most difficult things to accept for a parent. Because right now, coming out to them is saying, you don't have that control over my life. And that's very difficult for them to accept a lot of times they don't want to win as much As my mother is one of the most wonderful and accepting people, people have met my mother, a lot of my friends have met my mother and they want to adopt her is Please be my mother. At times, we have our problems too. Whereas I thought that well, we were past that point. Sometimes we're not, she's a hell of a lot better than a lot of other people Robert Lipsyte 10:19 sounds like you've been very lucky. For, for anybody who's gay or straight. For for some gay youngsters, the isolation and violence are overwhelming. |
01:10:42 642.33 |
Host Lipsyte cuts away to a pre-taped segment about a place for gay teens and youth to escape their isolation. Faces are covered to protect identity
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01:10:50 650.44 |
Man in classroom leaning casually against desk and lecturing students
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01:10:56 656.5 |
Pan out from var posters on black board to class room of students.
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01:11:00 660.58 |
Talking head middle aged teacher in classroom of the Harvey Milk School, teaching/lecturing.
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01:11:04 664.09 |
Shot from rear - African American student with black leather cap, white pony tail and leather jacket in classroom
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01:11:09 669.76 |
A. Damian Martin, Exeuctive Director of the Hetrick Martin Institute speaking to unknown unseen interviewer about the reasons he started the Harvey Milk High School, (the only school in America with a predominately homosexual student body) to protect the youngsters being pushed out of school solely for their homosexuality, to protect them.
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01:11:32 692.06 |
Teacher writing on blackboard in classroom as Host Robert Lipsyte narrates that the Harvey Milk High School only accepts students at risk in their own schools or those who are homeless.
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01:11:34 694.23 |
Handwritten sign on small chalkboard reads: Harvey Milk High School with a small hand drawn boat.
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01:11:36 696.7 |
Harvey Milk sign with Newspaper headline overlays depicting the controversies surrounding the school opening - "New York Post June 6 - Gay City HS Out of Closet, Classes in Village first of kind in U.S." "New York Times June 6. New York Offering Public School Geared to Homosexual Students"; Daily News June 11, 1985 - "Religious Tempers Flare Over Gay School".
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01:11:49 709.21 |
Joyce Hunter, Director Clinical Services Hetrick Martin Institute speaking with unseen interviewer. She states the ideal situation is for these kids to be in their own schools, but the traditional school system failed them miserably - including the teachers who turned their heads.
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01:12:18 738.15 |
Students seen entering brick building - building has graffiti.
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01:12:23 743.64 |
z'in on sign hanging on brick wall entrance to building "The Herrick-Martin Institute, Inc. - 401 West Street, Established 1979.
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01:12:28 748.32 |
students seen in group counseling session.
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01:12:36 756.61 |
A. Damian Martin talking with unseen interviewer about how he and his parter were inspired to start the school after he heard about a young 15 year old homosexual who was gang raped and beaten in a shelter, but he was the one thrown out because he was gay.
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01:12:58 778.73 |
Rendering of a yellow file folder with overlay of newspaper articles, "Teen-Agers Attack Pair Seen as Gay", "2 Gays Stabbed by Mob of Teens", Two Beaten in Antigay...." and Letter head from the Herrick-Martin Institute, Inc.
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01:13:04 784.57 |
Testimony from a teen, "David" shot from the rear and darkened so as not to reveal identity. He is looking out window and his voice is heard telling his story about being beaten up by a group of teens.
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01:13:41 821.13 |
Group of young men some standing against parked cars, some walking, one holding a bat - a foggy day - they appear to be looking for trouble.
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01:13:42 822.26 |
Three young men leaning against graffiti'd cement barrier, hanging out on a foggy day.
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01:13:47 827.04 |
Another trio - African American young men, sitting on concrete barrier hanging out. its a foggy day along the waterfront.
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01:13:52 832.91 |
African American young man, "Andre", sitting on bench at the pier talking with unseen interviewer about hanging out in certain parts of the city where you can be yourself.
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01:14:24 864.15 |
Homosexual couple seen standing at the pier on a foggy day, embracing, kissing
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01:14:36 876.89 |
Gays are seen hanging around, evening, standing near a parked car
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01:14:52 892.34 |
Host Lipsyte narrates about young gay man recognizing he was gay escaped from his home town to New York. Silhouette of the homosexual young man, "David" telling his story to unseen interviewer.
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01:15:13 913.53 |
Montage of night scenes on the streets - two young men dancing in the street, man leaning on car, hooker sashaying down the street young man approaches her and walks away with her, two men kissing, hustlers working the streets soliciting.
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01:15:55 955.43 |
Back to "David" continuing interview about the homosexual life, dying of aids, drug overdoses, hustling.
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01:16:19 978.97 |
Group therapy session, students sitting in a circle with therapists
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01:16:27 987.66 |
Host Lipsyte talking about "Vincent's attempted suicide". Silhouette of Vincent sitting in front of window, traffic going by, darkened so as to protect identity, he speaks about his attempted suicide and his eventual coming out as a gay man.
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01:17:20 1040.12 |
Wide shot Host Robert Lipsyte and guests in the studio.
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01:17:27 1047.73 |
INTERVIEW
Robert Lipsyte: experience growing up gay, Tom Approbato 17:29 well Believe it or not, when I first came out, when I first actually got into mainstream gay life, the first thing I found was the Hetrick Martin Institute, which was then the Institute for the protection of lesbian gay youth, this is going back three and a half, almost four years. It's much smaller than much smaller group of people, and the majority of people then we're right over there from the peers and I found the peers that's where I was taken with everyone else. And after a while realizing this is not for me, Robert Lipsyte 18:02 Frances, what about you? Did you make your way to the PC? Or is this something comparable for lesbians? Frances Miguez 18:08 I don't know if there's something comparable, but I've been to the parish just like to hang out with my friends, like a bunch of people will be going down to the parish just to hang out and I had never been and so like, I've been a few times. But it was never part of my experience. The first place that I found was GLYNY gay lesbian youth in New York. And that was a very good support group. And I didn't really need anything else. Robert Lipsyte 18:31 David? David Nunez 18:32 It appeared. First of all, I came out in Ithica. I was going up at Cornell University, and I came down here so this is all very new for me. And the peer for me, like Frances said, it's just a place to go during the day, usually, or even at night, but it's just a place to hang out. But never anything like you know what's described in the film. Robert Lipsyte 18:54 Do you think you think that was the kind of a more garish media version than what it's really like? Tom Approbato 18:59 Definitely beyond a shadow of a doubt, because we were on the piers last night, with a few of our friends hanging out talking joking around, watching the ships go by, and just having a good time. And that's what a lot of people tend to do just go there to hang out and be themselves. You can't deny that. Yeah, the prostituting does go on over there in certain parts and some of the more quieter sections, not only prostituting but just a lot of people who can't find their own acceptance of themselves. So the only way they can do it is just through Robert Lipsyte 19:28 a place to hang out. So we got to really think about is the parking lot of the suburban wall. Thanks very much, Frances, thank you very much for being with us. I'm going to be back with Tom and David, and with an older same sex couple talking about the next stage of growing up gay growing up gay together. |
01:19:48 1188.73 |
Host Lipsyte introduces next segment - "Growing up Gay Together." Cuts to break first.
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01:19:48 1188.75 |
The Eleventh Hour graphic.
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01:19:52 1192.31 |
Lipsyte is back and introduces two guests joining Tom Approbato and David Nunez, Meredith Altmnan and her life partner Emily Rosenthal.
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01:20:02 1202.31 |
INTERVIEW
Robert Lipsyte: Emily's 37, a self employed certified public accountant, married when you see a younger, same sex couple, do you think of anything that you could say to them from your experience that would make growing up together easier? Meredith Altman 20:20 Growing up is not easy. I got Robert Lipsyte 20:25 How do you handle things? Like I mean, you work for a corporation? How did you handle things like bringing Emily to a company brunch or picnic? How does one deal with that? Meredith Altman 20:37 Well, for the longest time in my career, I mean, I was not out. In the beginning, I even invented boyfriends. I mean, that's what you had to do in order to just converse Robert Lipsyte 20:47 at lunch around the watercooler, you talk about Tom or dick or whatever Unknown Speaker 20:51 Right, and I had to try hard to remember his name. But as time went on, as, as I got more comfortable with me, as I developed a network of other gay people, and heterosexual people that supported my lifestyle, I was able to first drop the lie of the boyfriend, and then even start going to company affairs by myself. And then in, in my last job, bring Emily into the office environment. Robert Lipsyte 21:22 So it's a question of hatching out little by little and widen. Emily, what about family functions? You know, Christmas? Emily Rosenthal 21:29 I mean, I think that, that this is an issue. One of the things that we've found, though, also over the years is that in a lot of ways, we're just as responsible for some of the problems that we're having as anybody else. It's our own fears that are stopping us. And a lot of times when we confront these fears, I just recently had an issue with a with a family function of that. My, my sister and her husband got an invitation, my brother, and his fiance, got an invitation, and I got an invitation. And nobody mentioned, Meredith, and we've been living together for two years, we're about to buy an apartment. And these people have known me all my life. They've even met Meredith once. And I, I realized that I had never brought up the subject any more than they had brought up the subject. And when I mentioned this to my mother, suddenly, the whole world starts turning around, I mean, a lot of ways. Because it's not so much that we want to shock people, or that we even need people to say, Oh, this is the most wonderful thing in the world that you're doing. But just to acknowledge it, publicly acknowledge it, so that we know that we don't have to lie about it. And that we don't have to make up stories. Robert Lipsyte 22:41 Yeah, Tom, your parents have been so supportive. Have you brought David home? Tom Approbato 22:44 Yes, I have Robert Lipsyte 22:45 How did that worked out. Tom Approbato 22:47 quite easily. I introduced David like I haven't, I've brought a lot of friends home and even past relations and brought them home too. And my family's always been very accepting. So mom, like David and everyone else like David, that's it Robert Lipsyte 23:04 when you would have problems with your family? David Nunez 23:07 Yes, Tom has been the only person that I brought home to mom. And even though she doesn't know him, as you know, Tom, my boyfriend or lover, whatever, at least she accepted Him. And I think she knows what's going on, but doesn't really quite want to understand or fully accepted, but at least she accepts him as a person and is very nice to him and loves him. I think, Robert Lipsyte 23:31 well, I one, I guess that's a step two, to accept someone as a person, and then it's easier to accept the relationship. Meredith Altman 23:37 I think one of the most important things that happens in an environment like GLYNY and like the community center, and like all the other organizations is that we get a chance at whatever age at it, because it happens equally as much as Sage to learn to approve of ourselves. And then from that core, we can take a step out and we go to the immediate family than a step out, we go to the extended family, then the employer, you know, then then Robert Lipsyte 24:09 then society at large in the state and contracts you you guys are going to buy a co op together. Could you tell us a little bit about the legalities? Is it all that simple now? Emily Rosenthal 24:20 Well, there are some legalities that we probably have to do that a married couple, for example, wouldn't have to do Although an unmarried heterosexual couple would have to do the same thing about we have a partnership agreement, who owns what share and so on and so forth. We want to make sure that if one of us gets run over by a truck, the other one gets the apartment, which would not be an obvious thing, which would be an obvious thing for a married couple. There are medical legal issues. If somebody hurt in a hospital can the other one go visit. living wills, that sort of thing who gets to make the decisions if the other person doesn't? |
01:24:39 1479.97 |
INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
Meredith Altman 24:58 powers of attorney which are usually used on specific instances are, you know, we're just giving a blanket if anything happens me if I become incompetent in any way, Emily will have the power of attorney for me, she will be the executor of my will. So that the decision making power over my life I have to record now will be hers otherwise, Robert Lipsyte 25:24 would you like to come out in a greater way as a as a public ceremony as a as a wedding? mean? Is that something that you've thought of? Emily Rosenthal 25:36 We've discussed this, buying an apartment together feels to us like a major commitment. I mean, at least at this point, at least doing something like this, we have taken on a commitment to be very responsible to each other. I mean, one of us can't just walk out and leave the leave the mortgage, Robert Lipsyte 25:53 What about children? Emily Rosenthal 25:55 Well, we've where we're, we're, she's an actual Robert Lipsyte 26:00 Tom, are these things that you've thought about consider such as a public wedding ceremony, or Tom Approbato 26:06 we've we've discussed that too. I'm sorry, I'm old fashioned. I was brought up in an Irish and Italian background. weddings are something that everyone goes through. It's a big deal. It's something that I will I guess I would really like I would like just a big celebration, a big announcement, a big celebration of showing people that this is our big commitment to each other. We're a young couple now we've been together almost a year, we'll be celebrating our anniversary soon. And we know right now it's not beneficial for us to live together because we can't, we could actually. But it wouldn't, we wouldn't be able to be happy because then we'd be fighting over money fighting over this fighting over that. In the meantime, we can be happy with each other and build ourselves up to that point, said a few years from now maybe we can go and we can do that. And as far as family functions go, this Saturday, my cousin is getting married. I was invited to the wedding. Me Not anyone else, just me. My cousins, I believe do know that I'm gay and they didn't they do now. I'm not going to that wedding. Because David was not invited. And I was not even asked if I wanted to bring a guest. I'm not going to the wedding Saturday, Robert Lipsyte 27:25 we're almost out of time. Do you think that's the proper response? Emily Rosenthal 27:29 I think it's a start. I think you have to just start saying you're not going to deny yourself all the time Meredith Altman 27:34 that. But what we want is not just acceptance of who we are quietly but sort of a celebration of who we are like our siblings Robert Lipsyte 27:43 Thank you very much for being with us. This is the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte. |
01:27:44 1664.87 |
Interview concludes. Host Lipsyte thanks guests.
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01:27:47 1667.64 |
Host Robert Lipsyte announces the show and introduces himself. Show ends.
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01:27:53 1673.19 |
Show credits run over The eleventh Hour graphics.
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01:28:30 1710.54 |
Funding for the program by announcer and overlay the Eleventh Hour graphics.
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01:29:02 1742.44 |
Reel end.
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