2000-2004POP MUSIC
PETER, PAUL AND MARY ON PETE FORNATALE MIXED BAG
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| 01:00:04 4.21 |
[Pre show conversation]
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| 01:01:38 98.12 |
Peter Yarrow: I'm Peter Yarrow
Paul Stookey: I'm old Paul Stookey. Mary Travers: And I'm Mary Travers and you're listening to mixed bag radio with the oldest man in radio Pete Fornatale... [introduction repeated] |
| 01:02:46 166.72 |
Pete Fornatale: Okay, if I understand correctly, Mary is going to participate in two so that will be the opener and the closer. If we go to something else in the middle, it'll be a duet and Bill will drop anything else in that we talk about in post in post production. Okay, so at the beginning it's just a straight intro - Hello again. Welcome to another edition of mixed bag radio. My guest Peter Paul and Mary will go right into "Some walls". Okay, is that the one all right let's do it. Let's do it. Let's Do It. Let's Do It. We rollin?...Hello again everyone and welcome to another edition of mixed bag radio. This is Pete Fornatale at the Gibson Baldwin showroom in New York City. And it is my great pleasure. Make that honor. to welcome my special guests today. Peter Paul and Mary
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| 01:04:00 240.44 |
Peter Yarrow: It's great to have these long friendships. And Pete if you're honored as you said to be with us, we are doubly so with you you've done a world of wonderment in terms of exposing folk music to the broad American public and we sit in awe of your efforts and we appreciate you and love you to death
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| 01:04:46 286.47 |
Peter, Paul and Mary
Some Walls
(live)
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| 01:07:28 448.03 |
Peter Yarrow: Miles Davis used to leave his mistakes in intentionally.
Paul Stookey: Bob Dylan used to raise the level Peter Fornatale: That's one way to do it. Listen, I don't usually begin these visits so transparently. After all, I've got my journalistic objectivity to maintain. But can I start this one by by thanking the three of you for four decades of entertainment, inspiration and social responsibility Paul Stookey: as you don't indicate how long that is an actual years Mary Travers: I think it's, as you would agree. It was in the it was in the music. There, you know, people come up to us and say, Oh, I grew up on your music. And our response very often is we did to, you know, the music of Pete Seeger. And, and Woody Guthrie and the weavers and Josh, and all of those people who came before us, laid the groundwork for what has been a spectacular dream and life to live. |
| 01:08:36 516.87 |
Pete Fornatale: That is what we are here to celebrate today. And it couldn't come at a better time. For Peter, Paul and Mary, this must be so exciting for you.
Mary Travers: Well, it's always nice to know that where the enemy is. And I must say, as we as we knew where it was in that in the 60s, we know where it is now in 2004. Peter Yarrow: And this is a graceful segue to music and advocacy, which is exactly the conjunction that I think has served us so well to just always keep us on the edge of what we care about what we're trying to say with our music and, and how we want to incorporate that into our own advocacy efforts. Because now is the time where I think we're facing the kinds of limitations of civil rights that are not terribly different in intent from what ultimately became one of the darkest periods of our own history politically, which was the blacklist period in the 1950s with the communist witch hunting trials that ultimately was considered by most everybody as being a real contradiction of everything that presumably democracy and liberty was about, and we're seeing that in our own country. And we have now a sense that the music itself is part of the way of confronting that. Pete Fornatale: It's ironic that some of the issues that you began your career, speaking out, for or against need to be spoken out for or against today, and we are going to get to all of that, Peter. But since some of this will be chronological, first, let me tell people that there is the long awaited boxed set called carry it on. There are five discs on here for of music, one is a DVD with some incredibly historic stuff that people should see. And generally, when someone comes to me with a boxset, it's like the parentheses at the end of a career. But in your case, you're simultaneously releasing the next chapter was that it wasn't a conscious thought on your part, or did it just turn out that way? |
| 01:11:00 660.62 |
Peter Yarrow: this next chapter you're talking about, is an album very much in the present code in these times, and a couple of those cuts around the box set. That indeed, this is a marketing stone, but I don't think this signals the end of a career in any sense.
Paul Stookey: I think there is a parallel and I hadn't really thought of it until you ask the question. Because when one goes into the collection process, and is rewarded, surprisingly, by the number of friends, responding with memorabilia they've kept for all these years, as you'll see, when you open up the center of the carry it on box package, there's a poster size page that unfolds, that has everything from backstage passes to the March on Washington to a picture of the three of us in cartoons standing on stage with little Annie Fanny from the Playboy editions of the early 60s. I mean, it really spans quite a bit. And at the same time carry in these times, is a recording of songs that we've been carrying on with for about 10 years and never got around to recording. So the simultaneous arrival is, you know, almost it's almost seems like it's very logical, because if you're, if you're cleaning up your closet, and you're arranging all your knickknacks and your memorabilia, you might as well want to bring out the new recipes and put them on the table. |
| 01:12:33 753.38 |
Pete Fornatale: One of the things we're going to do today is test your individual and collective memories. With that in mind. Can you tell me the first time the three of you laid eyes on one another?
Paul Stookey: okay, I get this phone call from Mary says there's this guy over here. Can we come over and sing? I've never heard a more innocent proposition in my life. So what do I know? I'd say yeah, they come over and they say okay, let's sing this and then they some and unforgettable to them folks on which I've got no knowledge of the lyrics. fact is, I was not a folky. I was a young rhythm and blues singer, you know, from jazz standard Brubeck, and I did a lot of comedic work. And although I appreciated folk music, it heard it. I didn't learn any of these words. And these guys already knew the words so the only song we could agree on... Peter Yarrow: ...was The Unquiet grave. Pete Fornatale: Wow. Isn't there something on the boxset that precedes your signing with Warner Brothers? PEter Yarrow: Oh, yeah. Some proceeds even getting together as a trio. There are three actually there are lots of pieces in the box that that are previously unreleased. And there's even a song from our concerts that was recorded on the road. In any event, the there are three tracks, actually yeah, three tracks. One of me singing buddy, can you spare a dime it at the Swarthmore Music Festival, which were preceded Peter Paul and Mary by at least a year. Paul Stookey: Mine was Goodbye baby [singing] It was a track that I did as a sophomore at Michigan State. And that would have been like 1957. And married, put on her version of singer girl. Peter Yarrow: also recorded prior to our ever meeting, and then there is a ghastly track from my perspective...the reason that it was so bad was that we brought in somebody who started to write arrangements. This was the case in point that should have been put out in the liner notes that he wrote this arrangement which is grotesque. And that it is, oh, I think it's horrific. It's so contrived, and yes, stupid to me. I mean, I love it. But - it was the reason let me tell you why it's significant to me. The way we ultimately made all our songs after that experience without arranger was to write on parts ourselves, and never, never simply sit down and sing somebody else's arrangement. And you will hear what happens when you hear this when the group has really gone astray. And we went astray. Thankfully, before we ever put out a record, and never did that again. Pete Fornatale: You know, I've never asked you about this. It's a name certainly associated with your beginnings. He's been gone a number of years now. I'm just wondering how you guys would assess the legacy of Albert Grossman? Mary Travers: I think we'd all have a different sort of little take on that. I think Albert was an enigma to many, many, many people. He was not a person whose emotions were out on the table. He always sort of was kind of withdrawn. Except, of course, when he laughed, and he had he kind of snorty laughed, you know. And, and, but I would say that Albert probably had the greatest nose for talent of anybody I've ever met. In recognizing, really cutting edge before, it was really there yet. Pete Fornatale: Do you gentlemen concur. Paul Stookey: He had a great year, Peter actually would be the definitive word because he became very close with Albert. On a personal level, but I know I concur totally with Mary about Albert's ear, he had a remarkable year. And the one thing that I've carried away from the many years that we spent with him, certainly our whole first decade, and then occasionally, after. The one thing that that really impressed me was that he put his faith in what he heard, you know, a lot, lots of us hear things, but we're not really sure that well, maybe that's our opinion, is it but he, he would really put his faith, he put his money where his mouth was he put his heart where his faith was. And he would, for instance, many of the deals, or the arrangements of financial arrangements that were made in the early years of Peter, Paul and Mary, were not made with large, upfront monies. And the reason that we were so successful ultimately, is because Albert knew we didn't need the upfront monies that eventually the attention would come. So we got great, what they call, I guess, back door percentage, back end percentages from the record companies from and we got lots of advantages, like as Peter was quick to point out, we got to produce our own records. He said, Albert said to mourners, yeah, you don't give us any money front. You know, if the record, just pay for the recording, the record does well, then then we'll talk you know, well, the first record with, you know, went gold and so many tunes on it were so memorable and folk music was arriving as a phenomenon in the country simultaneously. So when learners came to us for our second album, Albert could say, okay, the kids get to do their own production. They get to pick their own tunes. They get to do their own layout, design, artwork, graphics, everything |
| 01:19:55 1195.32 |
Peter Yarrow: I'm the one who has not the definitive answer at all, but the most biased answer Uh, because I loved Albert very much, even though I found him to be extremely difficult, in certain ways that he was a great teacher to me, and somewhat of a father figure in ways, because I grew up without a father in my life. And he was one of the sort of people that helped to really educate me and take me away from my rather comprehensive, square point of view in life. And I was that and he cured that a little bit, the comprehensive square...So, so let me tell you about Albert, from my perspective, I don't think that the Folk Renaissance would have happened in the way that it happened had it not been for Albert, because he not only nurtured talents like Joan Baez and Bob Dylan and and Peter, Paul and Mary, and Odetta and Richie Havens. Ian and Sylvia, Gordon Lightfoot. Yeah, he also gave all of his artists the opportunity to make their own decisions. He always said, You, I believe that artists have a right to destroy their own careers if they so desire. And when he would always weigh in, and his opinion was so respected. It was he that suggested we do stewball. It was he that suggested we do take off your old coat, Jane Jane, it was he that suggested in fact, the chorus idea for the great Mandela. Albert was, it was the person who sat in the recording studio and said instead of putting all the voices in the center, to Bill Schwarzkopf put the, you know, the three voices completely left, right and center, which gave a new intimacy, to, to the to the singing. And the contract that he drew up for us was indeed not a big part. It was a multi record contract. And it did give us every single artistic prerogative that we needed to continue to believe in ourselves. Whereas Colombia wanted us to go there, Colombia became Sony. And they said, well, they sing well, but they have all the wrong repertoire. And if they can change that, now they they're talking about the wrong repertoire being wherever the flower is gone. 500 miles if I had a hammer, lemon tree, I mean, Albert Grossman, to me, was outside of the musicians themselves and the artists, the most profound influence in protecting the integrity, the taste integrity, that I didn't always do it with, with with gentleness, and he was a tough adversary. But I'll tell you something. He he was remarkable.
Pete Fornatale: I'm glad I asked the question. Listen, I remember when 10th anniversarys were a big deal. In fact, your first Greatest Hits was called 10 years together, then 25 became the magic number. And you celebrated that one with a PBS special. I am awash in memories of 40 year anniversaries this year. And I want to ask you, about a couple of them in chronological order. August 1963, the civil rights march on Washington. How did you come to be involved with that? Did you mark the 40th anniversary this past summer in any special way? Peter Yarrow: Well, first, we got a call from Harry Belafonte to come down to the March on Washington, or maybe that was the Montgomery march. Otherwise, I don't remember who else would have done it. But I think it was Harry was the central organizing person for the performers that sang and if you see the new, the DVD, on the box set, you'll see Ossie Davis come up there and say the most wonderful make the most wonderful introduction before we sang blowing in the wind, he said, and now here to express musically. What has brought us together today is the folk singing group, Peter, Paul and Mary and that's, you know, a paraphrase. So the, it was, it was an extraordinary event. I myself, sang it Abyssinian Baptist Church in Atlanta, with Coretta Scott King and some other people I'd never been there to this year as part of the the events of Martin Luther King Day and his birthday, etcetera, etcetera. And it was interesting because they were saying at the gathering and the march thereafter, what would Martin have said, what would he have done in response to what's going on today with the Ashcroft debacle and the bush, debacle, et cetera, as we see it Paul Stookey: and the pre emptive incursion into Iraq Peter Yarrow: present preemptive strike as a policy to the absence of habeas corpus or due process for Guantanamo Bay detainees, etc. What would Martin have done? Paul Stookey: And what would he have said standing in a circle of students at Northfield Mount Hermon high school students where my wife is a chaplain on Martin Luther King Day, was to reiterate the hope you know, they bring a kind of innocence and awareness that this is a day in history that has figured in their lives and their parents lives, but to sing blowing in the wind with them holding hands, you know, and to reiterate, the hopefulness for the country is very special. Pete Fornatale: The song on the DVD is if I had hammer let's listen to that one on mixbag radio |
| 01:26:32 1592.2 |
Pete Fornatale: Peter Paul and Mary if I had a hammer on mixed bag radio more with my friends after this. Pete Fornatale back with you on mixed bag radio with my special guests today Peter Paul and Mary celebrating the release of a five disc boxed set called carry it on and a brand new album In these times. We were talking about some some four decade old memories. And the second one that I had on my list guys was November 22 1963, which got obviously attended to with proper respect I felt last fall. You have a story from that night originally. And I'm also wondering how you mark the occasion
Mary Travers: We were in Texas, I think we had done a concert. I Think Austin, driving in a car to Dallas that night. We were scheduled to sing in Dallas. And we had the radio on, you know in the car. And all of a sudden these news bursts into the music program that we were listening to. And the two of us were just stunned. I mean, just stunned. I mean, after all we had a year before had sung for John Fitzgerald Kennedy. And we had watched the President of the United States at an after performance party, dance arm and arm do a little tap dance with Gene Kelly. I mean, we had I was jealous that his wife spent the entire evening talking French to Yves Montad. I mean, we felt like we knew him. And the reports on the radio just got grimmer and grimmer. And finally, he was gone. And we got to the hotel. And instead of checking into three rooms, we checked into one room and jumped over the phone and notified the promoter that we were not going to the concert that night. And then I think you and I went to the airport and you took the car. |
| 01:29:11 1751.11 |
Peter Yarrow: I drove away and I was just recollecting something now. When Allard Lowenstein was shot and died, I was with a vigil. Lowenstein was a member of Congress and very close friend of the groups and close friend of mine very specially and we were waiting to find out if he would survive. And I did something that I also did in Texas at that time, when I was singing blowing in the wind. And they kept the door open. And somebody went like that and and instead I didn't, I didn't, I couldn't incorporate that information, in the same sense that I couldn't deal emotionally with it, It was too much of a shock. So I didn't deal with it. And I, and I just finished the song, as if nothing had been told, and I knew that that was the news. But I was unwilling to accept it is like when I, I, I, I read the tendon in my, in my finger when I was skiing, you know, I had the accident, and I went to the doctor, and I sat there, and he said, You've ripped the tendon, we're gonna have to operate tomorrow and I, and I said, Not a chance, not a chance. This is not the case, that absolute denial of the reality. But in this case, it was the emotional shock of it. And when I finally got my wits together, I got in the car and drove as, as just anywhere to get away from it.
Mary Travers: I think. I remember when Bobby Kennedy was shot. And I was in London at the time. And I got on the first plane to go home. Not because I was a fan of Bobby Kennedy's because I wasn't. But because he was ours. And I needed to go home to the My country, my family. It was such a terrible time. When so many lives were lost, not only overseas in Vietnam, but at home as well. Pete Fornatale: I was gonna ask this later, but I think it's a good time for it. You guys have been around for nine presidents of the United States. Which one was the best? Mary Travers: Which one danced the best? I'll never forget Lyndon Johnson stepped on my toe. And that was a big man to step on your toe? Let me tell you. Peter Yarrow: Well, I'll tell you. Al Gore was a great one. But you know, he got elected, and then something happened? Paul Stookey: I'm just thinking about what makes a great president, you know, and why Jack Kennedy was so accessible. And he articulated the dream of the left and the progressives as a country. So, so beautifully for me, He was intelligent, he was articulate. He was compassionate. He was human. He was yeah, he was all of that. But in retrospect, is - Mary didn't know that she had suggested you have to look at the post presidency life of Jimmy Carter, and recognize that a modest man, a humble man, in a very powerful situation, has his options limited if he feels that part of what he does with his power is to make a larger statement addressing a, let's say, a larger politic. And I think, I think Jimmy, Mr. President Carter, was found himself compromised many times, by his personal faith in a position where perhaps he had to exercise a harder edge. But in retrospect, when we see him in this work with Habitat for Humanity, and we see his traveling around the globe as a peacemaker, we've I've come to respect him Mary Travers: I think he was certainly in this world where one can be very easily become a cynic. When looking at politicians, he was a consistent man of tremendous ethical background. And he has continued to live his life. That way, it's unfortunate that, that you that it was difficult for him to be that in Washington, DC Peter Yarrow: I've got to say Lyndon Johnson. And we, and we, we were part of the Johnson movement. And we also campaigned for him to get elected against Goldwater, I looked at now in perspective, if you're talking about getting something done in this country, and really standing up once you know about what he really stood for, and how he was really trying to negotiate between enormous, different, enormously different points of view that were tugging at him, what he was able to accomplish in his presidency was monumental and what he believed in despite the fact that he did not get out of Vietnam than I and we now have a wholly different spin on and I also think that if you look at that in terms of getting some Think done. He's amazing. If you look at bringing the country together in the sense that FDR did, Jack Kennedy was unbelievable. And if you look at brilliance at that, not in terms of legislative record, because he was, you know, he was up against, you know, very dead kind of gridlock in Congress, but definitely are the president of and what is this a a senior moment, our Bill Clinton was a was remarkable. I don't know if that was Freudian, or whatever it was. So when we forget, well, afraid, Freudian. One thing, it's when you need to seem to say one thing, but you say your mother. |
| 01:35:51 2151.74 |
Paul Stookey: I also want to say, just a conclusion, that because Pete Fornatale's radio show is such a classic. And it will be played many years from now that we should really take this opportunity to speak about the wonderful Presidency of John Kerry, and how he led this nation through a very troubled time.
Peter Yarrow: was what was remarkable was that he came in, he came in at a time when we thought that we literally will I, in any event, thought that I would have to get a residence outside of the United States, at least on a part time basis. Pete Fornatale: alright to lighten the mood, I'm going to ask you the last 40th anniversary question. And it's based upon a picture that I saw up at Knowles studio in Maine, there are seven people in the picture. Peter, Paul, Mary, John, Paul, George, and Ringo. There's got to be a story that goes along. Mary Travers: Well, that's really sort of, but now we were in London. They were filming Hard Day's Night. And I think the PR agency, you know, put us together. Paul Stookey: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was. The thing is in retrospect, I am so embarrassed by my pride, you know, that stopped me from saying to John, or Paul, particularly, I love what you did with please please me, that descending line. But, you know, I was Paul, of Peter, Paul and Mary. And they were the Beatles. And we, I don't know, maybe it was the fact that it was a press setup. But I felt like we were supposed to be above that. Mary Travers: Well, we met them individually, on a lot of different circumstances. And I must say, for poor moi. I always loved Ringo. I thought he was the most unpretentious of the lot. He was sweet. He was funny. He, I could I could relate to Ringo. I found the rest of them a little too involved in this incredible avalanche of fame that hit them square in the face. I mean, we never had that kind of problem. I mean, we were famous, but nobody was ripping our clothes off. Peter Yarrow: I want to tell you something that's a little bit of a piece of history here. First of all, we the Beatles were the cause of my winning a very important bet with Albert Grossman. This is the one time I can tell you he was absolutely wrong or than wrong. I said that they were going to make it when they came to the United States. And he said he didn't think so. So there you have that, but I'll tell you what, I went to the I believe one night see no had pleurisy. Right. So that's in London, and we were being kind of kept there for a few days to wait till he was better to do our Royal Albert Hall or roll Royal Festival Hall concert. And I went there and I was set up on a date with Lady Carolyn cardigan or somebody like that. It was Really fun. And we went to Carnaby Street and we went to the island. And it was an IT WAS A bar bizarre setup of a date, you know, and I had nothing in common with whoever it was. I don't think it was that's who it was. Was the lady Karen? Yes, it was. Well, there was another one. But then where many? Okay, well, then we were not married. No, no, I'm telling you that setups marry. I'm not talking about another kind of information that I don't want to discuss in this context, which you so skillfully led me into? I would like to, I would like to talk about that one moment. And she and I, I just realized we were in like, a totally different worlds. But rainbow took a shine to her. And she came over to me, and we were at the island. And she said, Peter, do you mind? Because you wouldn't hire destined for great things if I hop off with Ringo? And I'll see when Yes. But the one I really liked was was Paul, and when they came to oh, there now there are things I can talk about. Okay, that was a nice talking about. |
| 01:41:19 2479.46 |
Pete Fornatale: Here's the follow up - rock and roll delivered a knockout punch to many of the folk singers of the 60s. Not so Peter, Paul and Mary. Paul, did you catch it just right in I dog rock and roll music.
Paul Stookey: I think we had a lot of fun in rock and roll music. And all we were really trying to do was to show that, hey, we can do this stuff to give us a bunch of echo, give us some backwards tape loops. And we can be just as Rocky as you and with that. That was the kind of the fun that we were having with those folks. Pete Fornatale: It was fun, then and it's still fun now and mixbag radio. I have a question to ask. It's 326. Mary, how hard and fast is your 330? what I'm saying what I think we will do then is to get the last live song from the three and then do a photo op. And let you go and if you guys can hang for the third segment...All right. You know what that's going to be at the end of the visit, then I'll just ask as many questions as I can get in before you have to leave. Okay, but let's get this done. Now. This is funny. This is jumping ahead in time. Oh, I know. This is how this is how I'm going to end the segment. So you might as well all hear this prepared... Guys, this visit has been a long time coming. It's always such a great pleasure to have you here. But I'm going to give the last word on the occasion of this visit to Coretta Scott King, who said Peter, Paul and Mary are not only three of the greatest folk artists ever, but also three of the Performing Arts most outstanding champions of social justice and peace. They have lent their time and talents to the civil rights movement, labor struggles and countless campaigns for human rights for decades. And their compassion and commitment remain as strong as their extraordinary artistry. Would you do one more for us? |
| 01:44:08 2648.81 |
Peter Yarrow: absolutely, dedicated to Martin Luther King
Mary Travers: Those who have marched and those who will march Peter Yarrow: His name is mentioned. |
| 01:44:38 2678.27 |
Peter, Paul and Mary
Have you been to jail for justice?
(live)
|
| 01:47:27 2847 |
Pete Fornatale: In the second segment, which will precede this one, I was going to go to each of you individually. Because another way around this DMCA thing is if it's from your solo album, it counts as something different. So Mary, that is John Denver's song that's on the box set for yes...Yeah. Okay, so let me let me get to that then. Oh, I actually, I got to ask this one. This is Pete Fornatale mixed bag radio, we always hear that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. If Peter Paul and Mary is the entity, what role? What distinguishing characteristic does each one of you bring to that entity? You can answer for yourselves or for any of your partners
Paul Stookey: I can testify to the fact that I was standing next to a blonde bombshell for 10 years and had no awareness at all. Until a couple of years later, I see the festival film of us at Newport and I go, Oh my gosh. So they weren't. That's why they were applauding. That's why they felt so involved in it. No, but it's true. There was an intensity to Mary that you know, because we were on all singing at the same time. We each had our own intensities. I just never chance to really clock how powerful she was. Peter, it was amazingly interpretive. He could move between roles. He would do everything from introductions to explain the ethos of a particular political position. So articulately so quick, and so off the top of his head, and I was just kind of a tongue tied kid who did a lot of sound effects, but I had a Midwestern affability and still do to a certain extent. Some people call it naivete, some people call it numb. But it nonetheless holds me in good stead. It's a form of innocence, in a sense, and I've not let go of that, and I really appreciate the fact that I have long and valuable ties with the people that I grew up with in high school and that to a large extent, I still am a Midwestern kind of guy. Mary Travers: Oh, I think I think that the two of you bring they bring a Different kinds of intensity each one of them. Peter has, is I can't imagine. working as hard as Peter works, PT works harder than anybody I know. And he is very detail oriented. And you can see his energy, whereas now has tremendous energy, but it's always, you know, close to the vest. Also meticulous, which is a good thing. Because I am not meticulous. I'm, I'm sort of the lazy one in the group. In the sense that there are other things I'd like to do, other than work. But I think what I brought was, I suppose, short skirts, and some very sexist qualities, although I didn't think so at the time. Although my husband says, having watched the DVD, What a babe, you were. Good thing, I didn't know that. I'd have been married 85 times. But I think we bring a performing intensity to the mix, and a desire to see the best in my two friends. And I have found, to my amazement, that when you play to a existential best that they the people you're playing with, whether they're your family, your children, your partners, they tend to try to come up, and we end up being what we would like to be by trying to be it. |
| 01:51:59 3119.71 |
Peter Yarrow: Mary kind of took the question and brought it in a slightly different place, which is, the way I'd like to address it to let me describe the way each one of us brings a couple of characteristics to the group that I think are essential to our art, survival, our friendship, our our focus. One of these is the way in which we are honest with each other. I think that Mary and I don't agree on a lot of stuff, in terms of process or perspective, but our hearts are in the same place. So it's like two real, old liberal progressives, you know, thrashing and out who both want to get to the same place, but we see different routes. But you know, what's extraordinary about Mary's honesty, is that you you she never lies, and she always let you know where you are. So you're not covering your back ever. Because you know, she's right out in front and direct about it. So you can have an attitude of, oh, well, you know, that, you know, take the good with the bad of that. And where Noel is, is he has his honesty, has compassion all the time, he always tries to share his honest feelings about things, particularly if he doesn't agree with you, in terms of honesty and humility, which I don't think really personifies me in any way.
Pete Fornatale: These are characteristics unknown to you. Peter Yarrow: No, no, no, no, no, I'd say humility. No, it's not. I'm not. I am. I want to scream from the rooftops about the joy of what's happening or the horror of what I'm saying or whatever. I never kind of pull it back at all he wants to his honesty is always kind of seeing it in the larger context and being gracious about it and understanding the other points of view. And it's kind of as he says, that Midwestern to me, way of not having that hyperintense a moment of exaggeration, you know, he's not Jewish is one of his problems. And I pride myself, I don't add a character as to well, but I know that I have a very vulnerable kind of honesty. So then I lay it out for people and they know that they can do with it what they want. And sometimes, you know, it puts me in an awkward situation. But we all strive to be true to truthful to each other, in one way or another, and we do it in different ways. The other thing that I wanted to talk about was another aspect of what we are that I think makes us a really a strong friendship and unit at this point, and that is our different perspectives on the music itself. I say I think that what Mary is entirely intuitive in the sense that it's not that she's not knowledgeable, but that she's has a certain kind of, of exact sense of where the message, and the and the, and then the, the musicianship need. So whenever she comes up with a part, it exactly takes you into that place. So her musical intuition translated into what's right for bringing us into that arena of really saying what we want to say, is infallible. I mean, it's really extraordinary Knowles and musical point of view is, is extraordinarily inventive, and always in an experimental mode, so that he is is always trying new approaches and new things. And it is he that sometimes will break into something, a point of view, particularly when he's discovering a guitar mode that will trigger a song like I did rock and roll music, that particular figure is essential to what what we've ultimately got to but he does it all the time. And again, I don't know how to characterize |
| 01:56:28 3388.07 |
Mary Travers: one thing, artists are known to have egos. But I wish it could be a fly on the wall when we're sitting in rehearsal. And because both of both Noel, Peter, write. They bring their little, their little present to the group to just look what I've made. And sometimes it's a beautiful gift. And sometimes it's a beautiful gift but and I've always been absolutely amazed and gratified that you can pick apart their work without them getting cuckoo about it. You can say I don't like that word, can we change that word. And they'll sit down and figure out another word. Or sit down and discuss, well, what is your intent because the way I'm reading this is it's going left when I think you want to go down the center. It's amazing to see the creative process without people being defensive about your saying, I don't like that.
Pete Fornatale: It also partially explains the longevity of the entity. But we're down to the wire here. I want to ask you each individually, as much collective successes you've had, there are things that are so identified with you as individuals. And I'd like to just maybe even in sound bite form, get a response to this question, and we'll do it in order of your billing. Peter, how is puff doing 40 years on? Peter Yarrow: Oh, puff is remarkable. sustaining power. As a matter of fact, puff in some ways, is really, as the song says a dragon lives forever. Sometimes, I go into a situation where I've met with somebody and then with a blank stare, and I really need recognition so that I can go forward with an agenda. You know, I've got to, you know, they don't know who peed in their yard. It's not unlikely. But one thing that happens that I really need to kind of get through the fence, get into the door, I say have you do you know that's all above the budget dragons. And most of the time they do. Everybody knows so the puff sustains. But what also sustains that stupid rumor about it that is about drugs, which of course was never the case. Pete Fornatale: Noel, we've had some of our best conversations privately and publicly about your sense of spirituality. And that was a manifestation of those beliefs can be found in your biggest solo success. The wedding song. Tell me a little bit about it and is it wearing well for you as it is for the world? Paul Stookey: The wedding song was an answer to prayer. Peter asked me if I would bless his wedding with a song and it certainly has a life of its own it because the authorship was not mine. I felt that the monies for it should go into a foundation in the film. nation continued to grow over a span of some 3040 years and has distributed money to so world healthier world hunger year to two Oxfam to many different agencies. And now is kind of giving back to itself in terms of beginning a encouragement to young artists in a music to life program that my daughter started, who is now the head of the foundation. A contest held every two or three years or so to encourage musicians to write songs about causes and concerns. And then through a very talented board of judges selects the 10 finalists and donates money to the to the causes which they have listed in their songs and brings vino any anywhere from 10 to 20. Really strong, powerful political and socially conscious messages to the world around us. |
| 02:02:10 3730.77 |
Pete Fornatale: Mary, I can't think of you without thinking of John Denver for a couple of reasons. Not only did you take his song, leaving on a jet plane to number one, on the charts, and 69 or 70. But when it came time for you to choose something from your solo career to put on the box set, you chose a John Denver recording?
Mary Travers: Yes. When I did the first solo album, John, I felt very at sea. You know, when you've been playing with two friends, for 10 years, and you don't play guitar, you know, you're gonna say, Excuse me, but who's gonna play guitar? And John said, I'll play guitar. So he was he accompanied me on that first solo album. And I sang a couple of his songs. And follow me, of course, was one. He was very sweet man. And him very generous of spirit. And he's missed, you know? Well, this has been, uh, you know, I guess one of the problems of staying, is watching some people leave. Pete Fornatale: Let me ask my last question to all. The most difficult part of getting older was losing so many loved ones as you go forward. Just in the professional sense, not even the personal for you guys, John Denver, Dave Van Ronk, Harry Chapin, Lee Hayes, how do you deal with these losses in your life and what do you take from them? Paul Stookey: in a funny kind of way, you salute their memory in an active way. It just occurred to me today when we were speaking to someone that we took a Phil Ochs tune that had no bridge. Phil was two, three years gone. And I say arguably his best known song was there but for fortune, and we wrote a bridge about bombs and hunger in a foreign land, in third world countries. And that was audacious on one hand for us to take posthumously add a verse, and yet in a sense if Phil were alive. That's what he would have written. He would have wanted to make that comment today. Peter Yarrow: I've got one comment about this. 911, I was getting ready for a concert that I was going to do at Central synagogue with my daughter, one of the many concerts of healing about 10 days or a couple of weeks after the tragedy. And I had to go and I, my hair was looking like I was, you know, Albert Einstein and I had to do any something about it. And I went in to get what was is admittedly a selective process. Now a haircut and sitting next to me was somebody who reached over and he looked at me and he said, You're Paul, aren't you? And I said, close? Yes. No, I'm Peter. And he said, Well, I wanted to tell you, because I want to share this with you. After I got out of the World Trade Center. I went home, and wash that despicable dust of my body and, and sat there with my wife, the two of us, just holed up in our jammies in bed. And we put on our Peter Paul and Mary records. And we sat there and held each other and cried, until our daughter came home. And then we sat there, and we held her and she cried. And we were then we put on Peter, Paul, and Mommy. And we watched Mary singing for baby with rocking her granddaughter, and each time was over, we were crying. And then our daughter said, I want to see it again. Again, mommy, good daddy. And after six times, I said, That's it, we have to laugh together. And they they put on rightfield, which is also from that a television show that we did for PBS. And he said, the point is that that's where I went back. That's where my home is, with your kind of music. It's not just Peter Paul, Mary, obviously, it's that whole ethos of caring, respect of togetherness. And, and I think that, as we look at the losses that we've had, when I went to sing with my daughter after that, in my heart, and I saw everybody, when we were seeing Puff the magic dragon, they put their arms around and started morning together, and just the tears flowed so freely. And I said to my daughter, Bethany, with whom I was saying that any What do you think is happening? You know, while they were applauding afterwards, she said, they're mourning another loss that, you know, they're just reaching for each other, to love each other more, hold each other more closely. And, and, and affirm what's important to them in their lives. So Puff, the magic dragon loss was about loss of childhood. But the loss of people that you love and the loss through tragedy, is occasions, one to cherish what is really important, even more dearly and devalue every single moment with the people that you love, like this moment with your friend and with Noel, and Mary, my partners in Peter, Paul, Mary |
| 02:08:22 4102.09 |
Pete Fornatale: let me end this on a personal note that I hadn't thought of until you just told that story. Peter. September 11, was a Tuesday, I had a radio show staring me in the face on Saturday. It's one of the few times in my life where I didn't want to go, I didn't want to be there. It'd seem so trivial, so meaningless. And yet, the thought did occur to me that everyone expresses their feelings by what they do. And that of course, I should do a show that day. That was followed by the dilemma of how do you get into this, and I spent Wednesday Thursday, Friday looking for the perfect song to start that program with. And it turned out to be because all men are brothers.
Peter Yarrow: What a compliment. Thank you, to us and to the writer of the song, and to a sense of that tradition that we inherit. The nice thing here, Pete is that I'm feeling that we're paying tribute to our own roots or mutual roots and to the legacy that we've inherited and that's who you are my brother. |
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