Historic Films Stock Footage Archive: JJ-206

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00:00:00 0	CLOSE UP OF LOU REED SPEAKING TO SOMEONE ON HIS TEAM OFF CAMERA. REED IS IN ALL BLACK WITH SMALL BLACK SUNGLASSES SITTING IN FRONT OF BOOK CASE. SIPS FROM A COFFEE MUG. HE AND PETE FORNATALE CHAT BEFORE INTERVIEW BEGINS.
00:04:08 248.03	INTERVIEW BEGINS: Pete Fornatale 4:08 Hello again, everyone and welcome to another edition of mixed bag radio. This is Pete Fornatale on location once again, like Dick Cheney at an undisclosed location in New York City with my guest, Lou Reed who recently released a very ambitious project, a two CD set called The Raven. And if you're thinking Edgar Allan Poe, you're absolutely correct. Lou, what got you thinking about Edgar Allan Poe. Lou Reed 4:39 The initial impetus came because the director Robert Wilson had a project in Europe. He had an idea to do a play about Edgar Allan Poe so he asked me to write it. So that was where it came from initially. And as you may have noticed, it's um And it's not about his life, it's his work has nothing to do with his life. Although the character is called Old Poe, Young Poe as a dramatic convenience, but in fact, has nothing to do with his life. And then when we changed it to CD, audio, rewrote the whole thing again, since it had was originally something you would look at. But now, for the CD, obviously, you're not looking at anything. So it's imagination. Pete Fornatale 5:32 Theater of the mind as they used to say. Lou Reed 5:34 big time for real? Yeah, yeah. There's sort of separate, you know, the men from the boys. Kind of an odd time to release a record like this. Pete Fornatale 5:45 Because you think the younger audiences today are visually spoiled by by the Intels of the world Lou Reed 5:54 because of downloading because of the kind of music that's very popular right now. I think this is going against the way things are right now. Pete Fornatale 6:08 Do you think people are too lazy to do it for themselves, you know, to to scratch the imagination that Lou Reed 6:14 Oh, no, they're just not used to this? Yeah. I don't think that at all. I think they're kind of being cheated with what's available to them. Because there's not very much very much available for I mean, there's lots of different kinds of people. There's lots of different kinds of music. Pete Fornatale 6:35 Are you a fan of music video? Did you have to be dragged in kicking and screaming? Or did you jump in? Lou Reed 6:42 Well, for instance, I mean, it's like, you can't say a blanket thing about anything. Bjork's videos are amazing. Every last one of them. I could, you know, watch them for hours. And I have Pete Fornatale 6:59 I say that because I had an experience with my youngest son a number of years ago, in the early days of MTV, we were driving down the main street of our town, and on the radio, Lou Reed 7:11 undisclosed location. Pete Fornatale 7:15 And on the radio comes a Huey Lewis song that was popular at the time, and he was playing in the backseat and he stops in his tracks, points to the radio and says, I've seen that song. Which is something that Lou Reed 7:31 must have been in a movie right? Pete Fornatale 7:32 You and I know it was the video was a video. It was the video. It was but that's a phrase relating to music that you and I would not have used. Lou Reed 7:41 Well that's not true rock around the clock. You said Oh, I saw a Blackboard Jungle. Pete Fornatale 7:46 I see what you mean. Yeah. But yeah. Lou Reed 7:51 So a little rigid girl can help it. Pete Fornatale 7:54 The Alan Friedman Lou Reed 7:55 was like, it was just different in different versions of the same thing. What's everything's a different version of the same thing. It's not, you know, videos, you know, a music video as opposed to music in a movie. And what's the difference on? I don't get it? Well, when a girl can't help it at Jane Mansfield. I mean, come on. What what what's the big What's the thing? A video is as good as somebody makes it. Right? It could be an exquisite jewel or it could just be tits and ass and that's fun too. So, I don't know Pete Fornatale 8:34 have you had both kinds of experiences good and bad Lou Reed 8:38 we haven't had the budget that could afford the tits. So we've had a we've had to make these are the kind of videos where you know imagination again, we just didn't have the budget you know? Pete Fornatale 8:51 There you go. Lou Reed 8:43 there you really got to remember we I mean it's not like you know we're not we're not a bunch of arty guys, we went to the casting couch and the whole deal to say Honey, you could be in a video you'd be seen by millions of people maybe get a thing in a movie, but we didn't have the budget. I said why don't we want to talk to you we could do Robert Palmer come on Pete Fornatale 9:11 this you sounding a little bit like the character you've played in in one trick pony. Lou Reed 9:18 You know, that was a pretty good imitation. You got it. That was I mean, I was you know, that's acting which is really, really fun. And I was I was doing it take on a guy who is the right hand man of a certain music executive at the time. I bought on mimicry. i But I want to be able to do that. I mean, singing Exactly. Sure. I took acting in college. Pete Fornatale 9:44 What was your major you were literature, poetry, Lou Reed 9:48 literature, useless. You know, there's a you What are you going to do with that when you get out? And the answer is right rock and roll songs. perfectly prepared. Pete Fornatale 10:00 How what sucked you? Lou Reed 10:01 Talia syllabic goes monosyllabic. It's a great thing. Pete Fornatale 10:05 What sucked you into that music? Lou Reed 10:07 I've been working in bar bands since I was 14. Let me put it that way. Pete Fornatale 10:12 On Long Island,
00:10:14 614.31	Lou Reed 10:14 Brooklyn, Long Island. Since I was 14, I was always in the underage. But that's what I did. And then, you know, like through college, that's how I supported myself. Pete Fornatale 10:27 But who were you? Who are you listening to that made? You want to do it? How did that door open? For you? Lou Reed 10:35 Mel Torme. I'm joking. You have the usual the usual everybody cites the same examples. So true. Pete Fornatale 10:47 I mean, are we talking about Alan Freed? Are we talking Lou Reed 10:50 we're talking about Alan Freed, we're talking about the sound of the Hound, the magnificent Montague, and everything those guys played. Pete Fornatale 11:00 I hadn't expected to go here until much later. But it's such an anthem that celebrates what you're saying right now. I just have to ask you, if, if I can make the connection between what you were just saying and the song rock and roll? Lou Reed 11:17 Oh, sure. I mean, that's why I wrote it. I just changed the gender sounded better that way. I mean, Rock Roll, I see Rock Roll is example of the life force. Unthinkable not to have it. And then once having heard it not to want to be part of it. I mean, it's like, even to this day, a&r men are guys who couldn't make it in a band. I mean, it used to be people at record companies, when people couldn't make it in a band, you know, or they were a roadie and couldn't do it anymore. And then it took a real turn, and you suddenly started getting a lawyer's strange, but it used to be people who just want to be near the music. It used to be we were talking about the other day used to be a really big deal when certain people put out a record. But a record, you know, didn't come in that plastic ship. I mean, I don't have anything against CDs, I wish they kept the big album covers and put the CD in the middle. And then you had nice big pictures. And nice liner notes, you can see without using some kind of microscope. Pete Fornatale 12:27 It's interesting consciously or subconsciously, what you did in this CD, The Raven was to put an album cover but it has to have folds in because it Lou Reed 12:38 really, you know, you know, that's also I don't know where they gave you the one that doesn't come in the plastic jewel box. Yes. Well, the thing is, that's hard to get. I had to wait two months. Think I'm kidding, man. Yeah, I think they made eight of them. Pete Fornatale 12:58 There's there's something Lou Reed 13:00 beautiful stuff by Julian Schnabel in there. Pete Fornatale 13:02 Yeah. Oh, you know, while we're talking about the package itself, it's all black and white graphics. And I'm sure that wasn't a coincidence. Am I correct? Lou Reed 13:13 No, of course, it's not a coincidence. Gee, we accident that you you forgot to put the color in the film. You did what? No, I mean, my friend Julian Shinobu. These great artists great film director great photography did this package. But this will be a collector's item, kind of like a Velvet Underground with a cover by Warhol. That's if you think you really did it. Pete Fornatale 13:37 If you think Warhol really did orShinobu really did Lou Reed 13:41 no. I know Julian did that. We never never really knew what Andy did. Pete Fornatale 13:47 You have some doubts about it. Lou Reed 13:49 No, I'm just joking around. He was so smart. It was scary. Banana peel for a cover. Brilliant. And you unpeel it and there's a pink banana. No one's ever done better than that. No one not even close. Pete Fornatale 14:09 I think I think Julian says about this work that it's his second favorite to the very one that you're talking about? Lou Reed 14:16 Oh, sure. No, he knows that. Pete Fornatale 14:19 But black and white. Lou Reed 14:20 Andy's a very big mountain. You know, whether people know it or not. There's a bunch of us good like, you know, University of Warhol. Sure. We're out there doing is this you know, his stuff is still all over the place. Amazing. And of course, now that he's dead. It's, you know, gazillion dollars for one of his paintings. And at the time, they said he's an idiot. Which shows you know what critics now right? There's no one stupid than a critic. It's not possible. It's not possible. Time OUT magazine, Time Magazine you're talking about. It's not even what you scrape off your shoe your toes like trying to play a record and be reviewed by the lumberyard special. I was going to ask you if you know people who write plywood that's who's judging. It's fantastic. Lou Reed 14:20 Have you ever do you think you've ever been helped or hurt by a review of your work? Lou Reed 15:24 helped? I can't even imagine it. How could it help? Pete Fornatale 15:34 In the sense that Robert Shelton's review of Dylan in the New York Times got him signed to Columbia Records? Lou Reed 15:41 Well that didn't happen to me. You'd have to ask Bob about that. Pete Fornatale 15:47 What about the other side hurt? Lou Reed 15:49 Honestly, how they could hurt you. You don't really know and takes anything a critic says seriously, people are impressed that you names in the paper. Pete Fornatale 16:00 So you're of the if as long as the names spelled correctly, it's Lou Reed 16:05 column inches and weight. And don't read them Pete Fornatale 16:11 Well you've gotten a lot of both. In your career,
00:16:15 975.14	Lou Reed 16:15 having said that, some of my best friends and journalists scattered throughout the world, that's really true you meet because some of them are major music fans. And that's how they got it. I mean, there are people who are crazy about music. And they can turn you on to records and put you into things that really like my friend, Paula Zaga. Nene, who's enrolling major music fan and detective novels. He's a great guy, and he's a journalist. So there you go. Pete Fornatale 16:48 It's like that blanket. Cliche that's said about teachers, you know, if you can't do you teach, and that's not true, Lou Reed 16:57 except, you know, fan, you know, someone who's a fan of music, that level of appreciation and knowledge. That's really something. Yeah, it's not like, you know, the idiots who write for the Daily News or timeout magazine or Time Magazine. These are people who are writing for someone sitting in a dentist's office. They don't like music, they don't like musicians. Pete Fornatale 17:21 Right? You're talking about those gifted few out there who are truly passionate about passion Lou Reed 17:28 love music Pete Fornatale 17:29 and need to express that in prose, probably as much as you need to express. Lou Reed 17:37 Like I was at Clive Davis, his party, the pre Grammy party. And the outstanding characteristic there is how much he loves music guys crazy about music. And he's crazy about crazy about it. And then boom, there's Aretha Franklin. And you jaw drops. To hear a wreath of I was only two feet away listening to Aretha sang. I just couldn't believe it. I've never been that close to her. Like, oh my god. Pete Fornatale 18:08 You can still get excited in moments, Lou Reed 18:10 Aretha? Oh, man, she was doing think I couldn't believe it. jaw drop sets, you know, you would have had to put a stake through my heart to get me out of there Pete Fornatale 18:25 Give me two other examples of artists who do that to you who put you away? Lou Reed 18:31 Well, you know, you're talking about something. Someone like Aretha Franklin. That's it amazing thing. Amazing. He is someone that I but I must say at the Grammy Awards, Coldplay doing that thing with the Philharmonic. That's something that would never work on TV. I don't even know if you could record it and get it but live. Wow. There's a guy named Anthony who's things on my record. Yes, but he's things at Joe's Pub once a while he can really do it to me. But Aretha my god. Ray Charles. Yeah. I mean, you're talking, you know, you're talking about creme de la creme? Pete Fornatale 19:21 Absolutely. Absolutely. I want to stick with poe for a while, obviously. Lou Reed 19:26 I mean, that's why it's amazing may even be considered to be in the same business they're in. It's like, wow, I know. I don't know about that. Right. I don't know about that. Pete Fornatale 19:35 Sometimes. You know, I've been mentioned in the same sentence or breath as some of the heroes of mine. Lou Reed 19:43 Jean Shepard Pete Fornatale 19:44 did stuff in radio. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I just, you automatically look at you revert somehow to the kid in the Bronx or the kid in Freeport, Lou Reed 19:55 the fan Pete Fornatale 19:56 the fan. Lou Reed 19:57 Who else? Pete Fornatale 19:59 Not Not a bad thing Lou Reed 20:01 I'm a very big fan, obviously, Pete Fornatale 20:03 obviously. Were you always a fan of Poe? Or did you have to reintroduce yourself? Lou Reed 20:11 I was not. I was superficial fan of Poe From the movies. Pete Fornatale 20:19 Vincent Price Lou Reed 20:20 you know, in high school, forget the movies Willner love the movies. And I said something negative about the movies and Willner had had a fit. I love those movies. How could you say that? Because the movies got him in. But Willner got me into it because he does How well am I co-produce? He does these halloween shows at St. Ann's. And this time this year he did it Royce Hall UCLA. But in it he gets all these musicians and actors and actresses and they do Poe. And so at one of them I did the tell tale heart acting it out loud. And when I acted it out loud, that's when I actually understood it for the first time. That really turned me around. Pete Fornatale 21:09 Do you have it committed to memory? Lou Reed 21:11 The whole Tell Tale Heart Pete Fornatale 21:12 a piece of it. Lou Reed 21:13 No, no, no, no, no. No, I rewrote it because it's my you know, rewrote it according to the way I understood it. To make it clear, or concise. Yeah, without using slang. Just to make it clear to the in this case listener why he says what he says to the cop. Like why is he do that? That was that's the thing about it. Why is he do that? So you could say well, he does it because he's crazy. Well, that's the superficial reading and you don't get any kind of emotional buzz off of that one. But then there's the real reason he does it and that you can get a buzz off of or at least I can and I don't know like doing this because it makes me sound like a patent. But you know lecturing about the epiphany at the end of Tell Tale Heart experienced by the lead protagonist in two hours or less, in one very long paragraph Please explain. Motive. modus operandi here. Pete Fornatale 22:26 If that's the essay question on the final Robert Klein would say get up the size six shovel
00:22:31 1351.87	Lou Reed 22:33 yeah, he ought to know Pete Fornatale 22:38 Poe Poe Poe. It brings up the question of Lou Reed 22:42 made for music. So rhythmical? Yeah, no one has ever. There's I mean, you've got obviously, Shakespeare's I Ams but Poe's The Raven, who's ever matched that? I mean, what a thing to come up with thats, genuinely fantastic. The data, data, data, data, data, data, data, data, data, data, data, data, data data that are tapped music you go pure and simple. It's so obvious. That's Pete Fornatale 23:16 Are you familiar with a couple of your contemporaries who did in fact do poe poems on their albums? Lou Reed 23:22 It's it's listed on the internet. We were inundated the minute I was doing this. Do you notice this? This and this one did this you know? I'm surprised Tina Turner didn't do something with Ike that we don't really know about some kind of closet pole experience. Tina Turner in the House of Usher. Featuring Ike as the bereaved husband there it is an immediate made for America. Right that right? There is still time. Pete Fornatale 24:02 The one I absolutely love is Phil Ochs doing the bells. Do you know it? Lou Reed 24:07 I do know. Yeah. Yeah. Pete Fornatale 24:09 I mean, he was certainly on to some maybe more Lou Reed 24:14 than you should have been. Maybe so all things considered equal. And yeah, we have to look at the endings of some things. Well, you know, the my album has an up ending. I don't know. This is a little turn that takes place there. We don't just leave you know, again, dark woods, you know, Pete Fornatale 24:34 again, a conscious decision work here a conscious decision. Lou Reed 24:39 Yeah, well, yes and no. After I did it, I was conscious of it. I try not to think about things very much like that. You know, or I'd be there all day. Pete Fornatale 24:53 If the ending of Poe's stories his death it was a tragic and well that's fortunate and mystery. area's death. Yeah. But once again, you're talking about the work right. So Lou Reed 25:05 I added on to it. Yeah. I mean, this a guy wrote the first science fiction story, the first detective story. This is a guy who predicated in Eureka, his long poem about the universe. The Big Bang Theory. And TS Eliot made a lot of fun of it saying, how do you, Edgar Allan Poe dare talk about why don't you talk about what you know, then it turns out, guess what? Poe in the poem says everything you're gonna find out everything came from a sliver. A sliver. Wow. Pete Fornatale 25:48 This sliver of an idea, that germ that giving back to a project, well, there it is, as the ultimate ultimate example, Poehas achieved the Khan has achieved more than a kind of immortality with his work. Has Lou Reed achieved a kind of immortality with his Lou Reed 26:06 K'm not a critic? I don't rate me. Pete Fornatale 26:10 You just do you. Lou Reed 26:13 We can only try and pray that history is kind to us. Here's pantheon of grades. Where do we fall? What shadow is cast? Gee, I don't know. What could it be? Let's see. Are we age 10? Are we even included? Gosh, I don't know. Not for me to say. Johnny Mathis. Lifetime Achievement wasn't there for what did that mean? I don't know. I don't after all these years, they they wait, they wait till he's probably in a wheeler. That's when you get the Lifetime Achievement. Not when it could do some good sell some records, right? They give it to you, you know, just as he's coasting. God knows where. Mr. Mathis, you got the lifetime but yeah, hey. Sorry, Johnny can't come to the phone right now. Pete Fornatale 27:08 Did you enjoy the Simon and Garfunkel moment? Lou Reed 27:11 I don't know. I'm not a critic like that. Um, Pete Fornatale 27:15 you as a person who was at this live event? Lou Reed 27:18 I was backstage so I missed it. Okay. Okay. Hope they enjoyed it. Pete Fornatale 27:24 Yeah, me too. I hope they did to poe 40 year life on this earth, accomplished. The Lou Reed 27:35 12 Step Program was not around for him. Right. Right. Yeah. Over and out. That's it. That's it that well, maybe it's not it, as you know, who knows, but that was the end of that. So Pete Fornatale 27:49 that, obviously, the time in which you are born has a definite effect. Lou Reed 27:54 I would put this way. I had my appendix taken out. If I lived in any other time period, I'd have been gone. Okay. Yeah. And it age nine gone. That's it every day after age nine. Lucky Lou. Pete Fornatale 28:10 I would like to think that that speaks to progress. But what about Andy? When you go in, for one thing, relatively simple and routine and come out on the snap Lou Reed 28:21 What about that young girl? Pete Fornatale 28:23 What about that young girl? Yeah. Lou Reed 28:27 Well, I mean, is it that but in general, I mean, let's be fair, you know, generally speaking, that's not what happens generally speaking. I mean, they could have taken my spleen out instead of my appendix and just left me to rot in there. But you know, generally speaking, they can do that. Generally speaking, they can take a gallbladder out and not leave a guy alone. But there's big lawsuit over that, Pete Fornatale 28:54 generally speaking, they can send the shuttle up and get it back safely. Lou Reed 29:00 Scary. Pete Fornatale 29:01 Very, very Lou Reed 29:04 well, I'd still like to go up. Pete Fornatale 29:07 This is kind of you would wow. Lou Reed 29:09 Oh, yeah. tomorrow Pete Fornatale 29:10 Where you were, you Lou Reed 29:12 know, I mean, I want to see it. Once I want to make sure we're not lying about sending these things up there and it's not in the universe. Yeah, exactly. Like the movie. You know, when those books they read proposition 613 Whatever it was that English thing. They said the whole thing is a phony, right that blowing up was no phony. What what did these people have to say about that? Pete Fornatale 29:39 You know, they want to get in. Lou Reed 29:40 It's not real. The Holocaust wasn't real, right? None of that's real. Denial taken to some new level. Pete Fornatale 29:51 It's funny this this would be a conversation. worthy, worthy of Poe. One of the things you said in the liner notes, Lou was that you were drawn to that notion of the impulse of destructive desire, the desire for self mortification. Were you conscious of those kinds of feelings?
00:30:15 1815.37	Lou Reed 30:15 Did I say self mortification? Yeah. mortification? Yeah, the word out. Wow, that's good. That was a good word that is good. Pete Fornatale 30:24 But, you know, Were you conscious of those ceilings? Lou Reed 30:28 Set of self destructive? I didn't want to use that. tired cliche. That's why Pete Fornatale 30:38 did you act out those? Lou Reed 30:41 What? Pete Fornatale 30:43 The impulse of destructive desire, the desire? Lou Reed 30:46 What do you I mean, did I act out Pete Fornatale 30:47 in your life? Is that something Lou Reed 30:49 I don't talk about? Biographical things, but I think anybody with a pulse? You tell the child Don't put your hand on the stove. It's hot. What do they do if you leave the room?Do you smoke Pete Fornatale 31:03 Drawn like smoke to a flame? Lou Reed 31:05 Do you smoke? Pete Fornatale 31:06 stopped 27 years ago, Lou Reed 31:07 there you go, okay. And you're obviously not overweight. So we can't use that as an example. But those are examples of people doing things that are bad for them. Cigarettes overweight, does that the other thing whatever. Pete Fornatale 31:25 You said that you'd have to go with Lou Reed 31:26 Greek philosophers that all things in moderation, including moderation. You know, there's always a saying or an epic graph that fits you. You could say the early bird gets the worm or you could also better late than never. So always something Pete Fornatale 31:47 well, you know Lou Reed 31:49 the older to fit. Pete Fornatale 31:50 The thing about cliches is that at some point, they were epiphanies they were Lou Reed 31:56 I don't know. Pete Fornatale 31:57 You don't think so? Lou Reed 31:58 You'd have to go back a long time. Pete Fornatale 32:00 Yeah. Let's, what about the two you just offered up? Lou Reed 32:06 Where do they even come from those from the Farmers Almanac? Pete Fornatale 32:10 Some? I bet Lou Reed 32:11 my you know, my version would be oedipus. That's much more along the lines that I think about me imagined writing that then I mean, already the biggest subjects taken. So that's a nice thing about every generation needs things restated. You know, certainly in songs. You said you know, kids want to have the band they discovered that's just for them that their parents hate. Pete Fornatale 32:42 That's always been part of it. That that's part of separation. Separation from your parents is embracing a music or an art that they hate. Right. I mean, it got a little confusing there for a while when parents and children were under this broad umbrella called Rock and Roll. Lou Reed 33:04 Well then they discovered piercing and that that took that stopped. Did you think tattoos is something check this out? stick a pin through the head of my dick now what do you think Pete Fornatale 33:17 that took it to a whole other place Lou Reed 33:19 Hey dad? Check this out? Oh, I don't know. I don't know about that one. Pete Fornatale 33:26 You said that you don't like to talk about biographical things. And I respect that. But when you put them into your songs, and then put them out in the world? Lou Reed 33:37 Well, don't be so sure. I'm talking about me and the songs. Pete Fornatale 33:41 Well, you know, that's an interesting question. Once you put it out there, Lou Reed 33:45 you know, writers make things up. Absolutely. An actor's try to make it so you think it's true. You wouldn't want to listen to something where you say this guy's bullshitting. IE Vanilla Ice Pete Fornatale 34:03 this could be a this well, not the Vanilla Ice part. But part of this could be dialogue from the film the hours have you seen that? Lou Reed 34:11 Oh, yeah. Pete Fornatale 34:12 Isn't that the question Lou Reed 34:13 The Nose Pete Fornatale 34:16 the nose is gonna get an academy or do you know that? Oh, Lou Reed 34:19 it's interesting because this might be reading these critiques from Virginia Woolf fans who was saying she was not a brooding person like that, and she was very beautiful. Meanwhile, I thought Nicole Kidman was incredible. Pete Fornatale 34:24 She was incredible, but it's the prosthetic device that's gonna get her an Academy Award. Isn't that weird times we live in? Lou Reed 34:39 It is very. I mean, what with all the special effects available? We said along the nose. Pete Fornatale 34:46 Right. But what I was referring to was what Ed Harris I don't remember the character's name. You know the this very question Lou Reed 34:56 What a scary performance that was Pete Fornatale 34:58 Wow, he's pretty scary. Lou Reed 34:59 Oh, my God a makeup on him that looked really real. Yeah. He looked like he hadn't eaten for eight months or something. Yeah. And then he tumbles out the window. And he's an intense guy anyway. Yes. Hey, you got some majored in intensity. Another actor like us, Jason Patrick. Pete Fornatale 35:21 He's not really broken through. He's had some it's Lou Reed 35:24 a pro. I think it's I don't know, it's the roles he picks. They're always that they have that real edge to it. Because he's a good looking guy. Yeah. But he plays some really vicious people. Pete Fornatale 35:36 Well, he wasn't Jeronimo wasn't he? Disappeared? A minute and a half. Lou Reed 35:41 I guess that didn't blip on my radar. Ah, do you? Who did he play? Did he play Geronimo? Pete Fornatale 35:47 No, no, he played at Calvary and American Calvary. Lou Reed 35:51 Okay, office now I was thinking of some of those other movies he's made. I mean, there's one now. I just saw it's a Jim Thompson that novel. Pete Fornatale 36:03 You've got some stellar people from both Lou Reed 36:07 New York's finest Yeah. How to buy them. I don't mean the police. Although our engineer is the only musical person and his Irish policeman family. They are all cops. Big time cops. And he's a rock and roll engineer. You can imagine what goes on. Wow. Yeah, in the tell tale heart the really aggressive loud guy. Oh, that's, that's Irish. Tim Latham. Make no mistake. God, Pete Fornatale 36:43 how did you assemble this crew that you've got working? Lou Reed 36:46 We had a dreamless me and Willner had a dream list of people that we were hoping maybe we could get because it's all very New York oriented. I mean, why not? You know, we're not in Omaha. You know, it's not like GE you think you know, I seen Elizabeth Ashley in the Gore Vidal play. The President's Men I think it was dine a benefit for the Wooster Group for Willem Steve Buscemi works with the Wooster Group, Fisher Stevens. We met through my friend Gina Gershon. And Amanda. We had wanted to get a man to Wilner knew Amanda and Katie Volk is the Wooster Group, right. Our core group. Pete Fornatale 37:33 Very impressive. Wow. Very impressive. Yeah. Lou Reed 37:38 We were beyond thrilled. Pete Fornatale 37:42 Just to pick up a couple of things that we missed along the way. This started out as a performance piece as a stage play. It's now this two CD Lou Reed 37:54 There's a single CD version, which eliminates the acting parts. Pete Fornatale 37:59 So how will you perform it? How will you bring this to life in live performance? Lou Reed 38:08 If if I had the money I would try to assemble everyone but some of these people are movie stars. One and everybody has their own schedule too. And no one wants to go on the road three. So you're stuck with me for you know, and my you know, I'll try to fill Williams shoes with my version of The Raven. Reading it. Are you still a real sweaty, arrogant, dickless liar who ascribes to nothing higher than a jab from prick to noodle to disgrace the conscience leaving Not a trace quoth The Raven Nevermore Pete Fornatale 38:49 I think you could pull it off in a second.
00:30:23 1823.98	Lou Reed interview
00:38:52 2332.4	Lou Reed 38:53 Someone I did this in Seattle at the bumper shoot festival and afterwards this kid came up to me said wow I love the raven and I don't remember liking it in high school. But I didn't know he said dickless liar Pete Fornatale 39:11 tell him to very carefully read the credits in the in the CD booklet. Lou Reed 39:16 Well what's interesting is you can like line it up you know stanza by stanza because psychologically it's it's matched the rhythms really exact. Because an obsessive was doing it. So yes, of writing about an obsessive it's perfect, isn't it? Sure it is. That's where being that way it works to your advantage. Big advantage. Pete Fornatale 39:40 So you will take it out on the road. O Lou Reed 39:43 Oh, yeah, sure. We're going out in May to Europe. Pete Fornatale 39:48 Are you still a road warrior? Does it still appeal to you or is it drudgery that you have to Lou Reed 39:52 the Traveling is a drag. You know, especially now that you're looking at you know, your fellow passengers wondering something They're set their shoes on fire, you know? Yeah. You can't sit and relax and watch a movie now because i Hey, what the fuck are you doing? Hey, put that plastic fork down. Pete Fornatale 40:13 You talking to me? Lou Reed 40:14 You know you just eat your food. What do you mean you talking me? What do you mean? eat my food? Who the fuck are you? Who the fuck am I? You talk it's the perfect scene for stewardess lot the cockpit door. Get somebody out here who's big? What's that guy doing stewardess? Look at that guy. Isn't he kind of weird looking over there? No, that one not that one that one. Jesus Christ Pete Fornatale 40:45 You will for sure be pulled out a line and and checked out at an airport. No question about it. Lou Reed 40:52 Lately for whatever reason I have not been pulled out Pete Fornatale 40:55 They are leaving you alone. That Glad to hear it. Lou Reed 40:58 old ladyies. They are pulling people out a line. That wouldn't hurt a fly. We are in our democracy so idiotic. I mean, like to prove that way even handed right? That pulling out like an 87 year old woman was like this. Right? Okay, man, take your shoes off. And bend over now. Some of these some of these people doing the searches. Pete Fornatale 41:24 Enjoying it a little too much? Lou Reed 41:25 I think so. Got a patch it down. That's hung, aren't you? Hey, can I do a search back there? Pete Fornatale 41:35 That's always a danger, I suppose. Lou Reed 41:40 You turn it off for a minute. What do you got under there? Now one of the things I love I'm in love America. I love Americans. Really? You know, going through security and I'm being frisked by a Sikh. Love it. Love it. What other country does things like this? Pete Fornatale 42:02 Not a one. Not a one. You could live anywhere in the world, Lou, I suppose? Lou Reed 42:09 Well, I'm not great with languages. Okay. I know New York. I really love New York. Pete Fornatale 42:15 That's what I want to hear about why? Oh, everything's here. Lou Reed 42:21 Everything's here. I mean, you know, new movie comes out. Where is it? It's here. New book comes out about where is it? It's here. The Japanese send over some great drum true for some great dancing, whereas it's here. Culturally. Can't beat New York. There's so many including, okay. The play version of this played were Brooklyn Academy music, the only place in the United States. So, Pete Fornatale 42:50 yeah, that tells you something, you know? Yeah. Lou Reed 42:53 Great actors, great musicians, great venues, great theaters. There's everything. Pete Fornatale 43:01 There's a downside. Lou Reed 43:02 And Plus you know, the people in New York are the best Pete Fornatale 43:08 in terms of their treatment of you or one another or Lou Reed 43:11 One another. Yeah. Yeah. If you get in trouble New York people not only will help you, but they'll know what to do. They won't just stand there. Pete Fornatale 43:24 I was just trying to figure out a way to Lou Reed 43:26 I don't know what to do. He was run over by a week thresher there was four fingers over there. What do you what do you do call Mr. Science? Why don't you do that? What does it say on the internet man? Hey, they chopped formaldehyde. Cool. Okay, that's the answer. Here you go get him to St Vincent's soaking in formaldehyde. So what up right now with the staple gun. See a Pete Fornatale 43:54 computer internet websites? How has that affected your life your art. Lou Reed 44:01 I always love the computer because I can't read my own handwriting. So what a great thing and then being able to do a bunch of versions of things have the spelling corrected. So you don't look like an idiot. Right off the bat that was great for somebody like me, that's mainly what I use it for. But then the internet and access to all the different information. That's fantastic. Yeah. And as far as downloading songs, there ought to be a way to use that as just a really great tool to get people to listen to other kinds of music or something because you can't stop it right? And it used to be you know, when they had tape cassettes, I said, Oh, they're going to take music off the radio. No one will ever buy a record again. That didn't happen. Right? Videotape now. Blah, blah blah and and went on and on now now the download a thing that really is something though because they can download the whole thing. In pristine one, pristine is the word somebody buys one copy of your album and 8 million people can have it if they want. So there's got to be some reason for them to buy it. So I think you have to give them a tracker. I don't know, I don't know how to handle it. I don't know how to handle it. It's the record companies have been ripping them off so badly. Like because why go out and buy something when it comes to this plastic shit. You know, you open those cases and they break in your hand. It makes you mad.
00:45:33 2733.56	Pete Fornatale 45:34 I can't eat sometimes you can't even get that far Lou Reed 45:37 to the outer plastic. Someone finally showed me the trick. How you do that? Pete Fornatale 45:41 How do you do it? Lou Reed 45:42 Get that? That ugly strip off Pete Fornatale 45:44 that ugly strip. Lou Reed 45:46 Okay, this is the way you do it. First, you get rid of the major cellophane. Now you got that ugly strip, Okay, you go to the rear binding, and you pop it up at the top, pop it down at the bottom. Then you can open it up. Pull them off comes the tape then you snap it back that works. Pete Fornatale 46:03 Yeah, this could be a whole new career for you, Lou, the Martha Stewart Lou Reed 46:07 It was shown to me by a journalist who, who gave me a CD and I said I'll never be able to open this he said let me show you a trick. Changed my life Pete Fornatale 46:21 household hints from Lou Reed. I can't believe it. I brought this strictly for your amusement. I was looking up some stuff about Poe for an obvious reason and I came upon this anonymous like most of these are anonymous offerings. Suppose Edgar Allan Poe had used a computer. Once upon a midnight dreary fingers cramped and vision bleary systems manuals piled high and wasted paper on the floor. Longing for the warmth of bed sheets. Still, I sat there doing spreadsheets. Having reached the bottom line, I took a floppy from the drawer typing with a steady hand I then invoking the Save command and waited for the disk to store Only this and nothing more. Save. I said you curse it mother saved my data from before. One thing did the phosphors answer Only this and nothing more. Just abort. Retry, ignore. Lou Reed 47:24 See that rhythm will survive forever. And what a genius thing to do. It's embedded in the world consciousness. What an amazing genius to come up with that. Pete Fornatale 47:39 You have tapped into that on every track of the new project. Call the Raven. Just a couple of more things for you, Lou. Lou Reed 47:49 A very inspirational thing to do. Yeah, it's like the old time template. Although like said you know, it'd be fun. But people have done this. Look at Sophocles look at adipose look at. You know, like, Fiona Shaw has the Medea. Kind of ads. They've been they've made the language more contemporary. It's interesting. I mean, people continuously tried to do contemporary versions of things. It's very hard. Ethan Hawke did a hamlet, for instance, where they tried to do that. Pete Fornatale 48:24 Is there a Poe estate or someone that you had to Lou Reed 48:27 Maggie Poe Pete Fornatale 48:30 Are you backing that up? Lou Reed 48:31 Yeah. Pete Fornatale 48:31 Have you ever been to Poe park in the Bronx? Lou Reed 48:34 No. Pete Fornatale 48:34 Yeah, he lived he lived there for a while Lou Reed 48:36 We've been downtown here where the NYU people destroyed his? Pete Fornatale 48:43 Well, no, the Bronx I've got to say give them credit. They kept Poe park and the house that he lived in as a historical monument and and there it sits. So I make you the offer of taking you up there one day. That's my old old neighborhood. How much time we have. Okay, good. I just do two more. Two more quickies and we'll be done. One night when I really envied you because he was the guy who opened the door. Lou Reed 49:12 Who was the guy? Pete Fornatale 49:12 Dion you inducted him into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I'm assuming that that was one of those like you mentioned earlier in connection with Aretha or Ray Charles Lou Reed 49:29 Who could believe it. Yeah, one of the great voices Dion. Mr Dion Pete Fornatale 49:42 Was it the street corner earlier sound of the group was it his solo so Lou Reed 49:49 anything Pete Fornatale 49:50 anything? Lou Reed 49:51 Anything he sings? I will listen. Pete Fornatale 49:54 One of the best male voices in rock'n'roll ever, Lou Reed 49:57 ever. Easily. Like he created a very unique style what a kind of a he you know he loved Hank Williams you might you would think it was just r&b but it was not no country mazing voice he likes doing jazz stuff now and scat sang. But I mean, it's being wasted, like Aretha is being How come no one's written an opera for Aretha or like put together like just how well, Pete Fornatale 50:30 because you know, the business is in a whole other space in place. Lou Reed 50:34 But there's an audience, I think the older audience if they knew there was something out there of that level of quality. I like to think they like me, or is it like I like I would it's i Oh, what a burden to have to also have that in the back of your head. Shut up and leave the grammar alone, please. Practice talking the street talk. Okay. We was thinking is that let's veracity to the whole experience. Pete Fornatale 51:07 Yeah. Are you Norah Jones fan? Lou Reed 51:10 I'm not familiar enough to have any opinion about any Well, Pete Fornatale 51:13 the point you're making though, is I think brought home by her success. Because the time said a couple of weeks ago that that was the album that every kid gave their parents this past holiday season. An album that they only expected to sell 30,000 copies has sold 4 million. There's an audience out there Lou. Lou Reed 51:34 Hopefully they like Poe Pete Fornatale 51:36 very early in the Raven project. There is this quote this notion that I want to apply to you and ask it of you. If you Lou Reed could converse with your younger self what would you say? Or what would you Lou Reed 51:57 but I can't Pete Fornatale 52:01 but if you could
00:52:01 3121	Lou Reed 52:02 but I can't. I don't I can make up 1000 things but since I can't I don't have anything I don't look back Pete Fornatale 52:12 okay. Now I'm in the same Lou Reed 52:15 Ornette Coleman said that to me. Pete Fornatale 52:16 Who did? Lou Reed 52:17 Ornette. I did this thing for a night at Lincoln Center for him like part of the celebration of ordinates amazing career you know, though don't look back I never looked back don't look back you know it's kind of like Paul Bowles you know and what is that the sky what Pete Fornatale 52:44 I was thinking of satchel page who said Don't look back something might be gaining on you Lou Reed 52:49 but that's another version Pete Fornatale 52:50 Yeah, that's yeah. I have the I have the dilemma. Lou Reed 52:55 Staggering sky. Pete Fornatale 52:56 Is that it yet? Is that it? I have the dilemma, Lou Reed 53:01 Don't look back you could get vertigo. There's a lot of these don't look back. Pete Fornatale 53:05 Don't Look Back Bob Dylan again. I have the problem. Right now that you had ending your album I want a happy ending. And you not looking back doesn't supply that for me. So let's let's let's go at it another way. You inducted Dion into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You are also a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Zappa. Frank, are those meaningful? I know that when you're paying homage it's meaningful to you. Was it just as meaningful in reverse when you were being honored by your peers? Lou Reed 53:50 I don't know about that. Awards are really weird. There's so much there's so much politicking involved with it. I don't know how seriously you can take it. Pete Fornatale 54:04 Okay. I'm going to try one more and we'll let you out of here. It doesn't seem that Edgar Allan Poe got the chance to enjoy his success. Do you Lou Reed Enjoy Your Success. Lou Reed 54:20 I enjoy everything and I don't need success to do it. Pete Fornatale 54:27 Happy Ending thanks a lot. Lou Reed 54:30 You're welcome. Of course being able to pay the rent is not bad. Lou Reed 54:38 You know, you know that you know that thing. Money can't buy you happiness, but it could buy me a Mercedes and I drive around look for it. Not a bad thing Pete Fornatale 54:48 Or the poster. I've been poor. I've been rich. Lou Reed 54:51 I think Pete Fornatale 54:53 it's better. What poverty sucks. I want to lie in the garbage can Lou Reed 55:00 thank you. wish you would I heard some show you did. It was I was like, it was like a blues collection or something from Mississippi or some some very intense thing. It was like one killer track after another killer. What the fuck? I should have been taping it was like, No, I mean stuff you don't get to hear. It's certainly not all in a row like that. I mean, I said, this is somebody this is really smart, what it used to be, where they had radio shows with guys who really knew music, and they would turn you on and do stuff like this. And I said, What did what is this and it was you, Pete Fornatale 55:56 I am so spoiled because you know, I've always done it that way. They took it away from me for a decade, but I had a mortgage and three kids gone to college. So I played the same 60 songs over and over again. But you know, the best part of it is putting it together. And what I enjoy the most is the week at home that it takes to find the stuff that you're talking about. I did something on Saturday, I hate to I hate to do the self praise thing, but you know, it's like if you can't please everyone, you got to please yourself. Just as a joke on Saturday, it was February 22. I was doing George Washington's birthday, the real George Washington's birthday. And I wanted everything in the show to relate to one of the 43 presidents. And it could be something as literal as a song about Abraham Martin and John Lyon war it could be something off the wall like Kate Bush representing the budgets