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The Eleventh Hour graphics and show opener.

Host Lipsyte talks about the topic of tonight's program. America is overwhelmingly governed by men! (Big surprise lol) Even though most of the people in America are women. Lipsyte announces guests coming up, Geraldine Ferraro and Elizabeth Holtzman then cuts to a clip related to this topic.

Barbara Boggs Sigmund, democratic politician and Mayor of Princeton New Jersey is seen in lime green raincoat at a guberniortorial campaign rally, talking through megaphone, standing in the crowd at a union rally in Newark, signing autographs, talking with constituents.

Faux "Ballot for Governors Senators and Congresswomen" overlays American campaign flag. Statistics appear as Lipsyte narrates indicating how many women are holding each of the offices.

B&W photo of young Lindy Boggs' , her husband House Speaker Hale Boggs, and their family in Washington DC in front of the Capital.

Sigmund in bright yellow coat leaning over signing documents

Pan out from statue and wide shot Sigmund is seen in a Princeton New Jersey park standing next to the statue of "The Little Vintner of Colmar". A group of children are watching, listening

Male official throwing water on the Little Vintner

Barbara Boggs Sigmund in bright green raincoat seen shaking hands and speaking with constituents, a young man wearing a suit; and African American man in maroon jacket; a young man and woman.

Princeton pirate mascot walking through crowd cheering, crowd is cheering.

Pan out to wide shot of crowd at celebration for the Seton Hall Pirates Basketball team.

Boggs in green raincoat shaking hands with male official on stage at rally. Banner behind her obscured reads; "South Orange Village, County of Essex

Tilt down on huge crowd of happy people cheering, blue and white balloons and banners in the crowd.

Boggs speaking with unseen interviewer again does not appear in fr

Wide shot of Robert Lipsyte in the studio talking with Ferraro and Holtzman. Magazines (Time and ?)on table in foreground with Ferraro's picture on covers.

INTERVIEW CONTINUES

Robert Lipsyte 11:35
I mean, both of you, both of you had very solid grassroots organizations and queens and in Brooklyn, which if for guys is kind of the building block.

Geraldine Ferraro 11:44
But going back to 1982, and we're going back nine years, it was tougher for a woman to raise money in 1980. And in 1978, when I ran, now we are finding that women are raising the same number of dollars meanwhile we ran up. As men. So as you know, the problem, again, that you have is if you're a challenger, you have more troubles raising money than an incumbent. And if your male challenge, you're gonna have problems just as you would if you're a woman challenger. So you really have to look at at the whole picture to determine is the reason a woman is not raising is the reason that she's not raising money, the fact that she is a woman, or is there something else, and if if challenge versus incumbency is in there, I think, I think it weighs a lot. We had no problem

Robert Lipsyte 12:23
is that that means that there is a general overall problem or in each specific case, you have to know whether it's because you're a newcomer, or because you're a woman,

Geraldine Ferraro 12:32
I think you have I think as a general basis, I think if you go back to the women's campaign, front of the phone, and the National Women's political caucus, and the people gather the statistics, they will tell you that women today are not having as much difficulty raising money as years ago. In fact, we're on the same level, I can raise money now as equally as easily as any male candidate. But so Can someone who is less well known, for instance, Nita Lowey raised over a million dollars for her challenge to DioGuardi, who raised over a million dollars too. So I mean, it's we're not the problems are not the same as they were in 78 when I first ran for Congress, or in 1980, when Liz ran for the United States Senate.

Elizabeth Holtzman 13:07
But there's some of the problems is still there. There's no question. I think women have made tremendous strides in terms of fundraising. And unfortunately, that's such a key ingredient. But it is. But still there are all kinds of other prejudices. When I ran for district attorney, for example. That was I was the first woman to run for that spot in New York City. No woman had ever held it. And there was a lot of skepticism about whether a woman could be a DA I mean, people came up to me on the streets and said, you know, Liz, I voted for you for Congress, I voted for you for Senate. This isn't a job for a woman And they said other people came up and said, how's it going to? How are you going to function with all that pressure? And others said to me, how are you going to have men working for you? I don't know what they thought Congress was like, maybe that was okay for women, because all you do is talk there. But da was a real job. And people had real questions about whether a woman could do it. Now if you went to people in Brooklyn and said, Could a woman be da? I mean, they'd look at you as though that were a crazy question. But as I said earlier, there are many, many barriers. Was there money or other

Robert Lipsyte 14:09
Negative campaign against Yeah, she's a fine girl or something. But I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't want it to be da.

Elizabeth Holtzman 14:15
And that resonated because people were very worried could a woman do this job, that barrier has been broken. But will a woman running for da in Des Moines, Iowa, or in Las Vegas have the same kind of problems? And then you talk about women running for other executive positions, which I think is the toughest for women to run for? And I'm sure Geri encounters some of that too

Robert Lipsyte 14:34
What kindof advice would you give to one of those bright young women coming up behind you.

Elizabeth Holtzman 14:37
Eleanor Roosevelt had something that I learned recently it stands you in good stead if you want to be a woman in politics, you've got to have skin as thick as a rhinoceros. I think it's probably true.

Robert Lipsyte 14:47
Geri, do you have a bit of advice? I mean, we're seeing all these wonderful, bright women coming out of law school with MBAs are just kind of ripe to get into politics. What do you tell them?

Geraldine Ferraro 14:58
I taught last semester last year at the Harvard Institute of Politics, I had lots of young people coming out, saying, Go, Go for it, you know, get involved become part of a political party. And I usually say I don't care which one just, you know, grab one. But of course, that I do advise that the better part is the Democratic Party. But they've got to get involved either in a political party, or on an issue or that's an environmental issue or, or what we could turn women's issues. I mean, you've got to get involved. And that's how you get into politics, politics, politicians, are people who care about about something, whether it's the future of the country or an issue or about what's what's going on in the world. And so you've got to start someplace. So join up. And

Robert Lipsyte 15:41
let me let me stop you for just a moment we've talked about the big problem with women is that they're the latest immigrant group into politics, and they're fighting all the people who are there already and don't want to give it up. But women do have specific problems. And I would like you to meet Barbara bog segments campaign manager, Joe Slade, white of New York. He started in politics in George McGovern's presidential campaign in 1971. And now he's a man who specializes in women's political campaigns.

INSERT
Joe White:
There are enormous differences in handling a woman candidate, mad candidate, one of the things we found when polling comes back with women candidates, even if that woman is unknown, voters say to us, she's pushy, aggressive, strident. They're assuming that any woman running for higher office must be pushy, aggressive and strident. And that's something we have to deal with. Here's one way we dealt with that with Evelyn Murphy's lieutenant governor's race in Massachusetts.

INSERT WITH JOE WHITE.

Joe White:
would destroy Evelyn's career. The voters of Massachusetts loved the idea of making history love this spot, and elected Evelyn. Probably the strangest phenomenon that I've ever encountered working with women in politics, is the polls show over and over again. That it's younger women voters have the biggest problem in voting for older women candidates. Here's a spot for an unsuccessful woman candidate I didn't do.

White plays tv political campaign ad for Senator Harriett Woods. Two girls play ball in background. Red car in driveway.

The Eleventh Hour graphic and Robert Lipsyte returns with Ferraro and Holtzman.

INTERVIEW CONTINUES

of of women? In a sense, the feeling was that were you were you Geri, the candidate or Geri, the woman,

Geraldine Ferraro 23:30
I was both in 84 I if I were not a woman, I would not have been the vice presidential candidate. I'm the first person to say that. I think there was there was real desire by Fritz Mondale to say Okay, enough, let's let's open doors of opportunity for women. And, you know, where is our universe in which we pick these people for national office, usually to the United States Senate or the state houses and they weren't a tremendous amount of people. So the next step was the Congress and I was there. So I was there both as Geri Ferraro the candidate, but also Geri Ferraro the candidate, the woman, and the candidacy was very special in 84, it's something that will not be repeated, because it was it was unique, more than the candidate the candidacy. So that my situation was very different in 84, from what it was in 78. In 78 I was cheering for the candidate. And the fact that I was a woman was one thing that I had to and I say this, you know, deliberate I had to overcome in the ninth congressional district because it is a very conservative district. You know, very, very large ethnic groups very concerned about home and family I am in was a wife and mother I had to portray that but I was also a very successful prosecuting attorney in in Queens County. I was a bureau chief and my slogan was finally a tough Democrat. That didn't work in it. Because it wasn't it wasn't so much Geri Ferrara

Elizabeth Holtzman 24:49
Can I just respond for a second on, because I think we're talking a lot about negatives. And I think it's also important to pick up on a theme that was said about the strengths that a woman brings to a candidacy, and this is also based on stereotypes in males will be based on the fact that too few women have ever been given power. So they haven't had an opportunity to be corrupted by it. But women and I, and I speak to you about this, from my own experiences in campaigning, women bring some very special qualities that the voters perceive voters think that women are likely to be much more honest, I think there's real view that a woman in office is not going to be out there stealing and putting the money in her own pocket. Secondly, I think that there's a view that a woman in office will be much more compassionate, will be caring, will use the powers of government to help people. On the other side,

Robert Lipsyte 25:34
this seems kind of negative in a sense to because what we're really talking about is that woman should have their fair shot,

Geraldine Ferraro 25:42
But those are all positives

Elizabeth Holtzman 25:42
i'm talking about these are positive attributes and strengths

Robert Lipsyte 25:45
You're talking about positive, then in terms of tactical ways to get elected.

Elizabeth Holtzman 25:50
voters reactions, I mean, these are the realities. I said it was a minefield, there's some secure ground that you can walk on one, the voters view that you're likely to be honest and compassionate and caring and competent. The minefields are that if you say the wrong thing, you can be strident aggressive, shrill, mean. All the other

Robert Lipsyte 26:10
Let me ask you, is there's something wrong in this country, because in Great Britain, Pakistan, India, Israel, the Philippines, you know, women have led the country.

Geraldine Ferraro 26:20
But you know, if you take a look at all those countries except the Philippines, I mean, they these are all places where the women have risen within their parties, and when support is have gotten into the power of the women who are at the head of those parties have gotten elected. I I think you have to look at where how we pick presidents and national figures in this country, and we pick them from a universe which is generally the state houses and and the United States Senate. I think with time we will have more women moving into those positions and more will become candidates. Pat Schroeder, I think is going to be a candidate 1992.

Robert Lipsyte 26:51
But we're gonna have to wait for that. If we may old girls network, to evolve.

Elizabeth Holtzman 26:55
It's taken a long time when I was elected 1972 I had the record as the youngest woman ever elected to Congress. Here we are 17 years later, and that record hasn't been broken. I thought he has an I'm sad about it. I it's nice to hold a record. But where are the other young women who I thought would be following me like a tidal wave. They're not there. And part of the problem is the money how much it costs. That's another Geri says they are there. There are followers. Yes. But it also costs more money. And women are not likely to bring as much into the into the pool when they start out because of a variety of other discriminatory effects that all they'll experience. But I think that if you look at what's happened to America, you have to have machine politics, which is here, the political bosses who don't like women and make it very tough. And the deep stereotypes that find expression Still, we still have a tough time, but we're making progress

Robert Lipsyte 27:48
We're going to have to leave it there. Elizabeth Holtzman Geraldine Farraro, thank you so very much for being with us. This is the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte.

Show credits over Eleventh Hour graphics.