19771970S TELEVISION SHOWS
"THE PIMP SQUAD"
WITH MEMBERS OF NYC & BOSTON VICE SQUAD: SERGEANT GEORGE TRAPP, JOHN MCMORMICK, ARTIE STOECKER, EDWARD MILLER, RICHIE CONFORT
1970s SEX INDUSTRY. MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE "PIMP" SQUAD IN THE WAR AGAINST INNER CITY PROSTITUTION, SEX WORK.
WITH MEMBERS OF NYC & BOSTON VICE SQUAD: SERGEANT GEORGE TRAPP, JOHN MCMORMICK, ARTIE STOECKER, EDWARD MILLER, RICHIE CONFORT
1970s SEX INDUSTRY. MEMBERS OF THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE "PIMP" SQUAD IN THE WAR AGAINST INNER CITY PROSTITUTION, SEX WORK.
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DAVID SUSSKIND INTERVIEWS MEMBERS OF THE NYC AND BOSTON VICE SQUAD REGARDING THE FIGHT AGAINST PIMPS AND PROSTITUTION IN THEIR CITIES
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INTERVIEW BEGINS:
David Susskind Police departments around the country are discovering that one effective way to curb prostitution is to arrest the pimp. My guest tonight a members of elite pimp squads from New York City and Boston, Massachusetts. I want you to meet them now. First Sergeant George Trapp heads the recently formed pimp squad in the New York City Police Department from the Boston Police Department. John McCormick is a vice squad detective Artie Stoecker is another member of New York's pimp squad. Detective Edward Miller goes after the pimps in Boston's infamous combat zone. And Richard Confort is a new york city cop. Officer confort has arrested 15 pimps. Well, is it succeeding? The pimp campaign? are you arresting them convicting them and getting rid of them and getting them off the streets? George Trapp Yes, we think it's a success. To date. We've locked up 84 pimps, whichever resulted in 32 convictions 10 dismissals, five warrants. David Susskind What is the warrant? George Trapp Well, a warrant is if the pimp doesn't show up for an appointed court date. benchmark is issued and currently we are looking for that pimp is unwanted man. Eight were arrested on old warrants. In other words, they had previous court dates didn't show up and they came to our attention and we subsequently arrested them. One was deported to Haiti and three extradited to other states wanted a different crimes. One individual in particular was wanted for a crime in Virginia weary shout to old people, Newport News. He was doing a 40 year sentence down there and he escaped and we found him on 8th Avenue here in New York City. There are 25 pending cases waiting for court presentation today David Susskind in the hierarchy, or the lowerachy of crime, the pimp rates were in your mind John McCormick Boston. John McCormick Well, I would say that just the lower level lower echelon of the crime structure. Because in Boston, the female rates in a low Echelon and her pimp is right above. As far as I'm concerned, David Susskind the pimp mentality? Have you analyzed it in the work you've been doing? I mean, what makes him is he a spellbinder, the one I've met, has a spiel that just doesn't quit. Richard Confort Well, a pimp has a very good and diversified vocabulary and become can become a very fine con man, in fact, well as training and all his expertise that go and go into becoming a pimp is all based upon his being able to become a con man and being able to talk people into certain things. Being able to talk a female at certain activities. Or just overwhelm them with his charm and with his philosophies, and they certainly do have their own philosophies. David Susskind Have you figured out what it is and women, the women who become prostitutes and work for pimps, that makes them submit to that debasement to that, Edward Miller I will just say that none of us a psychologist, but any woman that works with a pimp, as a pimp itself, himself, has a psychological problem, usually stemming from a family broken family when the youngsters, such as the loss of a father, or one parent, and the pimps provide some need. And he's on a super ego trip, a good talker and the providers need for the girl before she knows she's trapped by them. George Trapp I think what Eddie says is essentially correct, I found and the other fellows in the squad have found in most cases, the girl that does go with a pimp is wanting for a father either is an absent father at home completely out of the house, or maybe perhaps an alcoholic father or a drug father, something like that, in essence, is absent from the house. Most of the time, there are problems in the home and the girl does David Susskind I've read that about 20% of all the prostitutes on the streets of the major cities are 16 years of age or under. Is that true? Arthur Stoecker Well, I couldn't really comment on David Susskind any arrests you make? Arthur Stoecker No, because in New York City, if they were less than 16 years of age, they would be handled by the family court and a juvenile court. So and to my knowledge, most of them, they might be below 16 years old, but they they either have phony identification or other means to say that they're over 16. And they wouldn't get involved with basically a runaway runaway unit or other types of units that are looking for the juvenile type of David Susskind in your cities. Are they predominantly the prostitutes, black? Minority groups? Richard Confort I would say that there might be a 60/40 ratio the I don't have any exact figures, myself, from my own observations on the street. I would say that approximately 60/40 relationship in New York City in Manhattan in Midtown. David Susskind Majority black, Richard Confort right? Correct. David Susskind And but the customers the majority of the customers are white George Trapp White Yes, correct. Quite often the the pimp will instruct the prostitute not to turn a black trick. Whether it's out of fear of being ripped off by a black, it's unknown, but frequently they are instructed to this. David Susskind The lesson of Boston has anything to teach the rest of the country you've taken one block or you've taken maybe it's two blocks. Lower Washington Street is a bad section. And you've almost said legally and police terms. Anything Goes peep shows massage parlors whore houses. John McCormick Well, no, let me just start one second, whore houses, no, peep shows movies. All kinds of obscene matter. massage parlors, which is sometimes front for whore houses. We go right in in these places, and they can operate in Boston. But that word combat zone, it we the city didn't name that a, a newspaper reporter for the old record American did and it was more of a nickname. So it stuck, though with the city David Susskind It is a fact that the the sexual uglinessess are confined to a two block area in Boston. John McCormick Yes, That's correct. David Susskind It has that proven successful in keeping it localized and keeping it from spreading. John McCormick It has kept us from spreading except for one other section of the city. But I don't think it could be a standard for the rest of the country. I don't think the rest of the country should accept a standard do it? Edward Miller No, I think you have to realize that you cannot. Because you say it's in this zone, build a wall around it and keep it there. It's like anything else. If it's there, in a South proving successful, people outside are going to want part of that success. Why can't they get it? We don't have to separate the laws. Any law that is broken in the combat zone, whether it's in a combat zone, Copley Square, it's still the law. If it's broken. There was action taken. David Susskind Can you ever let prostitution no matter how severe your campaign against it, widespread arrests, rounding up all the girls taking them all to Night Court, prosecuting as hard as you can wait so long as men want sex and women are going to sell it. And pimps are going to superintended? How are you going to break it? Richard Confort Well, I don't believe that'll ever will be broken, I may be curtailed some water maybe shortened and maybe surrounded and maybe put in a certain area. But as far as prostitution itself, I believe that it'll always be here. It was here before and it will always it's here now. And I'll always be there later on. In prostitution, George Trapp our philosophy is we're going after the pimp. By going after the pimp. We're releasing the girls from the pimps bondage, at least those girls that want to be released from the pimps bondage if they are being held. And we're not naive, that much to think that every pimp prostitute relationship is one of fear, there are quite a few out there that it's one of love. It's like a husband and a wife. But there are quite a majority of girls that are being held under this pressure under this fear. Now, it's our hope, to at least make a big enough dent into the pimp population. So that we can say the girls that are now on the street want to be there of their own free will. And when we accomplish this, then we can deal with the problem that all the prots out there are really voluntary, and then not there. Because they're being intimidated or coerced into working or working the stree George Trapp Doe that make life any better, easier. In terms of curbing the problem. Arthur Stoecker I think the the major problem is, is basically the US a US dollar, it's it's a commodity that's being sold out there, there's money being benefited. And whenever there's a benefit when somebody can make an easy buck. It's good somebody is going to go into the profession. And as bad as it may sound, there's money being made and lots of money being made. And if you could say to take away the money, maybe that's maybe that's the income. That's how you could possibly eliminated or David Susskind To any sizable degree. Is it mafia controlled George Trapp No, no, it is no, we are experienced is that is it's not mob run. Because prostitution itself does not lend itself to organizations. The pimp has his own little organization with with his stable of prostitutes. That's about as far as the organization of prosts run the pimp socializes with other pimps in the after hours place, and that's the extent of that organization. Richard Confort But, however, the word organized crime and mob sometimes they have a stigma about them where they mean one particular thing, but I think that we can consider the pimp himself per se the pimp himself organized crime, where with his affiliations with others pimps, and there is almost there was very close to the point where there was unionization out on the streets between pimps and between working girls out there. It's just like a big labor union out there where pimps cooperate with other pimps and you do have unionization and therefore you do have organization and you have criminal organization. George Trapp Plus they do come in contact with members of organized crime I use the organized crime is any organization that deals in crime, because they pimps are in contact with narcotics. They do buy cocaine that cocaine uses. So cocaine naturally comes from syndicated crime, people that import cocaine to this country. So in that way, they are connected. David Susskind Okay, hold on, gentlemen, we're back in a minute |
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SLATE CARD - COUNTDOWN CLOCK
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INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
David Susskind When you talk about the be almost unionization of the pimps, they really have staked out territories and stables. And they do not cross each other. They don't try to raid each other's women. Richard Confort Well, no, that does happen. And I think George even will testify to this what is a vast experience, you'll have a girl out in the street and the girl might be working, working a particular corner. And let's say that she doesn't have a pimp. Some might be riding by and I'll see this girl and I'll come up to the girl and ask her who's your man and she's well I have no man. And naturally he'll tell the girl right then and there that Well, you can't work this corner unless you have a pimp. And even if I can't be your pimp, or you don't want me to use your pimp, or I'm not gonna choose you as my woman, you have to have a pimp. And he'll tell you get off the corner David Susskind Or get hurt is that the implicit threat? Richard Confort Well, if persists on staying on that corner, or that area or that stroll stroll is what it's known as. If she persists on staying there. The physical violence will incur George Trapp Or he'll take her money he'll take I'll take the money, he'll rip her off, you'll take her money on the street, she can't exist every trick she turns up then you take her money Richard Confort The majority of girls out there cannot work without a pimp. It's a unionization. It's like belonging to a union. It's like blowing to the patrolman's benevolent Association. You cannot be a cop. Well, I shouldn't say really said I really. But you can't be a cop. Unless you belong to the PBA you should belong to the union. If you're a working girl, you have to belong to the Union. And that union is the PIMP union, you have to belong. And if you don't belong, you're not going to work out there. And pimps. Although pimps, take pimps take girls from other stables. They almost have an agreement out there that one will cooperate with the other one and cooperate with the other one. As far as girls working out there. George Trapp pimps actively recruit girls from other states. from Boston, I guess. These two police officers will testify to that minister from Minnesota, from Tennessee from Kansas, they just crossed state lines with the girls that bring them here to New York. And sometimes they paid a commission for every head they give to a pimp. They're actually barter back and forth and who's got what girl and this girl and that girl and a lot of times the girl is under the impression she's coming to New York for a good time. He's gonna buy a nice clothes treated to dinner and all this stuff. Next thing that she knows she's in a hotel room, the main lady is hustling around to the street and she has to turn X amount of tricks David Susskind Can a woman to be forced to do that, I guess to will. Realistic? George Trapp Yes. Yes. Absolutely. David Susskind And in what sense? I mean, how can a woman say, you're going down to Lexington Avenue, you're going down to three main street in Boston. And you're gonna John McCormick just for my experience I think it's the con in the line that the Trump gives the girl just drilled into her head and she says, That's my leg. I want to do David Susskind But the girl recruited from Kansas or Minnesota for good time in New York. So you're gonna go to the theater, and you're gonna get some new clothes, comes here, and then learns, oh Arthur Stoecker that actually does happen. They do go to the theater. They do get the clothes for this. And then all of a sudden, now you owe me in that time. Well, he's wining and dining. He's also going into her mind talking and talking and getting this his psychology into into her head. And eventually he puts it out to her. It's a now you owe basically you might owe me for what I've given you. I've given you all these nice clothes. I've given you a hotel room. I've given you good times. Now what are you going to do to repay and if you want this these times to keep going, we need some money, you're going to have to go out and do these. Edward Miller A lot of these worlds will actually fall in love with this guy. And we had one case a girl from the suburbs around Boston. She met a fella who was a pimp she didn't know what at the time but she fell in love with him had sexual relations with him. Now He said to you owe me $100 David Susskind You owe me 100. Edward Miller She said, You're nuts. He said, You owe me $100 for the pleasure of having sex with me. Now, how was she gonna get you? She didn't Well, she went on the street, we have to go on the street, Richard Confort we have another expression in New York and expression with pimps is called charging a girl. And it's basically the same thing like that, like, what this o fficerjust mentioned is that, let's say a pimp will be standing on a corner. And let's say Working Girl, although she may be working for another pimp, will approach another pimp and might be a general conversation. Hi, Joe, how are you? For the privilege of talking to that pimp, although that she doesn't even know him, he can turn around to that girl and say you're charged. And that means that she's charged $100 for the privilege of talking to him. And she has to give them that money. It's a written well, it's an unwritten rule out the street there, she'll have to give them that money. And if she doesn't give it to him, he'll just take it right off of her. And that's the rules of the street and another pimp the other parent will understand this. If I tell even come back to the girl and say, Would you be so stupid as to talk to him in the first place, and go show Arthur Stoecker Going along with this charging at that point where he charges levied against the girl. At this point, she also has the at this point, she has the right to choose him as her pimp now, which is a way of bringing the girl into his his so called stable, George Trapp then she can't go home again. Now she goes home, home back, we're back with her original Pimp A pimp is going to say to her, where's my money for tonight? So she's gonna say naturally, well, I don't have any money because I had to give it to Festplatte back or something like this. He's gonna say, Why did you do that? Well, He charged me. He's gonna say listen, bitch, you must have talked to him and then slap her around for giving them money. He's not gonna go after the pimp it took her money he's gonna go after her. David Susskind Is there a lot of physical violence punching and George Trapp there is a lot of physical violence. When you look at it from the standpoint of an underage girl. This maybe percentage wise 2000 prostitutes to me 10% is a lot of violence. When it is violent it is very violent. We're talking about taking a razor blade, maybe in cutting the girl if she wants to leave maybe cutting a face and throwing her into the street. We just had a girl recently, right? In fact, just she she was cut up pretty bad. And she called us we we think her pimp did it. David Susskind Did she say or pimp did it? George Trapp well she thinks he did. But it's very hard to prove he may hire a Confederate to do it. Edward Miller We had a similar case like that George in Boston, where the girl was actually sliced with the razor on the cheek 15 stitches, and told us that a pimp had did I tell you, you're crazy. Once you go to court, we'll help you take it to the court procedures. She said no, I deserved that I could possibly deserve and she Arthur Stoecker I've talked to girls in court. And I asked him about girls that would be and they've said occasionally, I deserve it. I feel that they deserve to be be there until enough. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't I didn't do the right thing. And I should be punished. It's a form of discipline. It's they feel that they actually should be disiplined David Susskind most of the pimps. Black. George Trapp Yes, yes. I would say about 90%, maybe 10%. White David Susskind 90% of pimps are black. George Trapp But it's not a racial thing. It's not a I don't think it's a racial thing. Like you'd say David Susskind Well then how do black men pimps commandeer white women with the frequency? With such ease George Trapp Becuase its the tools of their trade? Is this the way they talk? They're very slick. They take pride in the way they can talk. And that's, that's that's the way it is. David Susskind By the way we should say it's where would the normal ratio where sex is concerned? There is a hesitancy in interracial sexual relationships. It doesn't seem operative. With respect to prostitutes and pimps. The reverse is true. they gravitate toward the black man, Edward Miller Well I think that was true with caution, you know over the last few years, there has been no more liberal attitude in sex. Am I as I said before a girl meets a fellow she sincerely Likes him and Before You know what she falls in love with them, no matter what his color was. Richard Confort There were certain regions in the country that mixed marriages aren't uncommon at all. Maybe the well, I don't know that much about Boston. But I'm saying for example, Minnesota. They have a great liberal attitude there. They have a lot of mixed marriages there. As a matter of fact, a lot of your pimps in New York a lot of your black pimps will go to the Minnesota area. Minnesota is known to have Norwegians, Swedish ancestry, and your average girl your average girl will be a via here, one girl, which will be perfect for the trade New York be absolutely perfect. The average John wants a blonde wants a fair head girl and don't go to Minnesota. And because of the attitude out there, or I'm not just labeling Minnesota itself. Other states in the Midwest because of attitude out there. Being associated with black or interracial marriages is not uncommon at all, and they will join up with a pimp David Susskind But as one looks at the average black pimp on the street. As one sees him in the Cadillac with the big hat, and the Stetson boots, it would be almost a turnoff to a modern white woman from anywhere in the country. But these it's so corny. It's not most it's not smooth and sophisticated. Arthur Stoecker most of these girls, aren't you basic? Like basic so called American Girl, they all have some, some sort of problem. Like we've said before a family problem. And all it is David Susskind but they were girls who were brought up on American movies, they went to the movies, they watch television shows, they read the magazines, yet they're attracted to the Outlands John McCormick very insecure girls. They're very insecure. Arthur Stoecker You can go back to the old thing of the mystique of the of that's always been written about the black man is a maybe a great lover. In I think he read in, in during the slavery times there was always the the white plantation who did get involved with the black man. And I think this is the same, same type of David Susskind No, no, the the white plantation owner got involved with the with the black girl, the black slave, it was the reverse. Now, is this some sort of gravitational pull based on the previously forbidden sex between the races? George Trapp No, I think the girl first of all the the standard girl prostitute, a lot of times has run away from home. Now she gravitates to your normal places, your bus terminals, your drugstores, maybe one of the Chain Drugstores and in these areas, you find these pimps, these smooth talkers and stuff like this. Now the girl is down and out, she has two options, she can go to the police or she can go home, she don't want to go home because she's had a lot of turmoil and a family and this type of thing. So the pimp offers her an additional direction. He maybe buys her a meal, puts clothes on a bag does not come on how strong sexually puts her in a hotel room. And treats are very nice. Then he maybe takes it to New York City and shows the good life. Maybe he'll tell her you're going to be an actress someday stick with me, baby, I'll give you tell you what to do. And pretty soon she's caught up in this romantic atmosphere. And she's out on the street with his main lady now Richard Confort saying that she's white, and he's black really doesn't mean that much at all. It's of course it is a deviance. But you got to realize that although they are different colors, this girl has a lot of problems. And this man is offering a cure to those problems is showing us some love showing us some affection and some attention. And this is what she needed that precise moment. Irregardless of his color. David Susskind Okay, gentlemen, we have to pause coming right back. |
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INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
David Susskind New York and Detroit Chicago pimps in your territory in Boston. John McCormick And Nevada, we had to add two or three Nevada pimps Edward Miller Thye come from all over the country. And just today we're down in Manhattan South Station. And we were going through the files and a lot of the faces of familiar to us, because they do work in Boston. And also they actually have like a circuit. John McCormick In fact that one page we came to when they went pimp, we informed you that he was doing time and one of our Massachusetts prisons, David Susskind do they operate stables of women in various cities. I've been told by a pimp on this program that he functioned in New York and other major cities such as Chicago and Detroit and Boston the girls switch also, George Trapp he he can't function he can function he can have his like I said before his confederates, his confederates, right in another city, picking up the money for the girl, maybe taking out some expenses for himself, and then relaying the money to the pimp here in New York, if you use the New York, and the pimp in New York never has to go out of state. But he still collects the money. Richard Confort There also might be some times where, for example, when Jimmy Carter was inaugurated in January, we know of information here where some pimps have two or three girls, and they brought their girls down to Washington DC for the organization inauguration because they know that a lot of out of towners were coming here. And possibly there might be some business there. If there's too much heat on in New York or exam as a prime example. The Democratic National Convention was held here in July. I think he had something like 3000 additional police in the Midtown area. The heat was just too great. They took all the girls and I stayed up in Montreal for the Olympic Games in lots of wasn't a lot up to the Olympic Games. Great games was a bonanza for them with all the spectators up there. John McCormick You know, rich in November you had a couple incidents that your student was murdered down in the combat zone. And the girls in Boston fled that area. And the pimps in glut came to Boston, you saw the difference around the 15th of November, a Arthur Stoecker lot of great, great pickup of activity from the area. John McCormick The pimps went into hiding and they go to heat, Arthur Stoecker wherever the heat or the pressure is put, they're free to get up and move. They don't they don't want to be in a pub, not the public right but they don't want to be in a polices. Richard Confort Wherever the greatest amount of money is generated from wherever the mass is located at that particular time that's willing to spend money they'll go like I said, they'll go to Washington for the inauguration where the what you have a all of your out of towners come to Montreal where the Olympic Games were held. David Susskind They go where the action is sure they go the Olympics so New York is having a real publicized effort by the police pimp squad to arrest pimps by a had the girls turn on them. Turn them in. Here is one of the cards that you post all around the city. |
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SUSSKIND HOLDS UP A "PIMP SQUAD" POSTER - THEY ARE BEING POSTED ALL AROUND NEW YORK CITY
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INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
David Susskind I guess you I hope you can read it pimp squad have a pimp have a problem with that pimp what to do something want to do something about that problem, call us to talk pimp squad and a special phone. That's correct. As that been his you had a response. George Trapp It's been very successful. At first it was a little slow getting off the ground. As you know, also, we started leaflet campaign, you have to kind of hand them out right advertising thing. We have to advertise we give out leaflets in the place of the tension on the street. And anywhere that the prostitute is going to be found. We've had about to date maybe 26 phone calls, resulting in a conviction of maybe 10 or 15. pips, so it's been successful, we offer the end that doesn't tell the whole story. A good many of the calls we've had I've been from girls that are underage, and where we were unable to obtain enough information to put the pimp away. At least we put her in contact with a parents or some relatives and we did put send them on the way home. David Susskind It's very hard to convict a pimp, isn't it because you not only need the evidence of his girl, his prostitute that works for But you need corroborated evidence somebody else Edward Miller That's in New York David Susskind What about Boston Edward Miller in Massachusetts all we need is the evidence from the girl the testimony from the girl that is strictly you have to testify in court David Susskind is that very difficult to get to they tend to be loyal to the point that Edward Miller We've had a lot of cases, massacres, where the girl will turn in a pimp will go to court. But as you know, throughout the country, the court system, the delays, we may go up to two years before we come to trial. By that time, that girl may be gone. Or she may completely change your mind and the case is out the window. Richard Confort Now in New York you like we were talking about before, you didn't do any cooperation or just to be a two on one situation. Now sometimes that works to your advantage. And sometimes it doesn't, of course, obviously it doesn't work to your advantage where you have a pimp out there and you have a complaint and you cannot get any cooperation at all. It'll always have to be a two on one situation. Advantage, if you want to call it advantage, obviously is is the more confidence that you have in your criminal justice system. When you have a pimp and you know that it's going to be a two on one situation. And he's definitely the burden is on him. You definitely have a case on him in John McCormick In Massachusetts, deriving support from the earnings of a prostitute. It's a felony, but it's only a three year felony. And it's a non violent crime. So that pimp was out in the street in 10 months. So we're gonna have there is legislation and to change that. And because it has to be changed. There's no incentive, you know, on the pimp spat, he knows it's only he'll be out in 10 months. David Susskind Yeah. In your experience. Do the pimps encourage a dope usage? George Trapp No, they do not know because I'll tell you, the pimp wants all the money for himself. The Pimp may smoke a little marijuana reefer or some blow some cocaine, but he's not going to get the girl on heroin. Because the pimp loses money to her drug habit. Most of the experience we've had, if the girl is on drugs extensively, he kind of shocks her Richard Confort body and of course a performance and the girl might even probably wind up stealing from the pimp, which is in their society is a very harsh crime, David Susskind but they do as brew encouraged them in theft. George Trapp Oh yeah, absolutely. David Susskind Ripping off John McCormick the prostitution if they they turn a trick and rip you off the same get they can't if they can't turn a rip you off. David Susskind How do they do that with a weapon a knife or something Arthur Stoecker all different methods I've I've been informed of a method used in in Midtown to hear midtown area where John was taken to an apartment put in, put in and it was a telephone communication system with another girl who was a part of the pimp stable stayed in a closet while they were having a having a good times. this girl slipped out of the closet and stole the, the John's the money and he left before he didn't even know he got ripped off. Richard Confort That's commonly cool creeping in New York, you may go up to a room with a girl and you may be on the bed with a girl Anna unknowingly to you, there might be another girl underneath the bed. And while you're having a good time, she'll be lifting your wallet or your pants pocket. Now, the average girl and I'm only using the mean here, the average girl might make $200 a night just tricking, she might make another $200 On top of that creeping lifting wallets doesn't necessarily have to be cash. It could be watches, it could be checks, etc. But your average girl out there might bring in foreign dollars a night. That's one girl. I think it's the same John McCormick in most cases in Boston, a trick will go up the apartment with the girl in the trick always puts his wallet in his cash, either in the glove compartment or underneath the seat in this girl has several little mega boys you're working from right above the guy when his money's gone, it comes down in his papers are gone his money. Arthur Stoecker And of course at this point, it's possibly a family man he's too embarrassed to make a complaint will make me put because, of course it's going to become involved that he was with a prostitute. So he just forgets about it. the crime goes on David Susskind the simplest thing I read in some of the reportage having to do with your respective cities. The girl was suggested cleanliness is next to godliness, and sends him into the bathroom. That's right. take a shower,clean your shower, George Trapp and she takes his pants his clothes, she throws it in the whole closet and downstairs and out through the lobby. And that's the end of the he's nude. He's in front of the cop and he's looking for making the report out. I've been ripped off. David Susskind Have you had nude men? George Trapp Absolutely. That's common. That's common around here. I mean, if you're looking for tippy toe down the stairs and is black socks, go to the desk, the manager and say I've been robbed. Richard Confort He's standing there nudevcomplain to you saying I've just been ripped off and you'll say fine. You know the girl if she looks like Okay, could you just give me your name? Well, officer, I have a family. I have a family. I can't give you my name. I mean, while he's standing there having a nude less the $100 or $50 whatever he had in his wallet. George Trapp Pass The key they also passed the key without that fellow meeting, he'll meet a girl in a hotel, go up to the room, you'll have his sexual relations with a she expresses her undoing undying love for and he thinks Gee, she really loves me take me down to the bar and buy me a drink while they're down at the bar having a drink. She either passes his key off to somebody else who goes off and takes off his room. Or maybe the other fella has a pass key goes in it takes up. Richard Confort Now we found out through a great deal of experience that when I tell you about tricking and when I tell you about creeping that one guy with the other that we found that a lot of girls let's say there might be three girls and a stable or five year olds working massage parlor off five girls working in a brothel. There'll be a great deal of competition there. If I'm a working girl and I'll steal $200 Well, let's say the girl next to me might want to steal $225 To make her look great or in the eyes of a pimp. Although you might be working for the same pimp each one tries to outdo the other. And all you have is a multiplying and a snowballing effect on is stealing and is creeping John McCormick Before I was assigned to vice. I work in a South End division and we got a call a fella was in an apartment for 36 hours because his clothes were stolen and they find it no one heard his screams until 36 hours later and we got a call on me and screaming it was a trick was ripped off completely and his wife who lived in a suburb had put in a missing persons we put on this phone and we get the call to come and get him David Susskind There's a lesson there gentleman. Stay home. We'll be back in a minute. |
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INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
David Susskind these stories they lead me to the question what kind of men require prostitutes with the new the with the new sexual freedom and all ages young middle aged? What kind of man needs to pick up a professional? John McCormick Well I find our tricks mainly married gentleman this a maniac, right? And it's suddenly middle class and something that they aren't getting at home. They're coming down here for service at the beginning and if they get along, they wouldn't want to come down. Kinky Boots do a lot of kinky tricks out there and they do require so much more than their wife can give them. Yeah, George Trapp they're from all walks of life. We have accountants, we have everything Buddy, your next door neighbor is a trick everybody's a trick is a big population out there for the prostitutes. David Susskind What's the most incredible John victim or you're not he's not a victim well a man that solicits the business of a prostitute. John McCormick He's as much a part of the crime David Susskind He's not a victim he's a co conspirator.Well, that's another question. What are the most remarkable cases of coconspirator males that you run into George Trapp being ripped off? Yeah, I've had fella from the diamond district with $50,000 worth of diamonds, a little pouch taken off. I've had an executive $1,600 Cash, he was taken off recently, way back when I won't say what country but one of the your diplomats was taken for $140,000 cash, and one of the big Midtown hotels. These are people that patronize these prostitutes, not realizing that the prostitute is not alleged, is they think she's a legitimate business person. Well, she is not, she's there to rip you off and get the most out of her customer that she can if it means stealing, that she's going to steal. Richard Confort Now, David, let's not forget who was behind all of this, the process was doing the stealing, but who's behind the prostitute is the pimp, and all these diamonds, any of these other monetary value, value things? They're all going to the pimp and they'll either be black marketed, fenced, or sold at maybe 1/5 of the value all that money is to the pimp. David Susskind Well, then how do you crack the pimp slavish hold on his women? George Trapp Go ahead, you have to approach the girl. You have to the girl has to trust what you're going to do for she has to believe that you can protect it from the pimp, which we do. David Susskind can you Protect her. George Trapp Yes. Absolutely, absolutely. No experience so far is we've been in business and it's been 80. Some odd arrests so far, has a pimp retaliated against the prostitute Richard Confort We had one here one retaliation, and that was 1000 miles away. And we were still able to work that out George Trapp A phone call. but very rare. They are cowards. David Susskind How can you promise and deliver to the girl you say, I'll see to it that you're not beating up? Do you send her out of the city out of the state John McCormick If necessary, it will be like we just said a girl. We put in a hotel for four weeks. Because she was threatened. And we stayed with a police woman stayed with it, and it was fine. She's testified and now he's in jail. And she's living a normal life again. But we've had other cases two days for sick, you know, 72 hours, whatever it may be take David Susskind alright, but if he goes to jail, a Massachusetts for three years and comes out in 10 months, does he go looking for revenge? Richard Confort I have not seen it. our experiece have shown no. But he doesn't want to have any. He doesn't want to have the pimp squad on him again. And we have never had any retaliation at all. That Limelight right, when we get a girl we we tell it will give you the maximum amount of protection that we can, if it means taking you out to Long Island for a period of time and putting you up in a motel. So things calm down, we'll do that. If it means putting our let's say, a covenant type house wishing, gain counseling and perhaps get a employment opportunity. We'll do that we'll be in constant contact with her to let her know that we are a friend and that we do care about her and that we're trying to make sure that she does go the right way and nobody and nothing will bother David Susskind What is the sentence in New York State for promoting prostitution for a pimp. George Trapp Okay. He can get, say seven years. Recently, I think Richie will show you the article just yesterday we had a conviction and the man pleaded guilty to a B felony which is punishable by 25 years in jail Richard Confort I'll tell you the story very briefly. This was involved Artie George and myself. in the begining of December this fella by the name of blood, he ran into a runaway girl from Long Island. I'm making a very, very long story short, he conned her into coming up to his hotel room and he said that I can take care of your problems. I can sue the problems I'd like to talk with you. Once you got her up to into the hotel room. He raped sodomized her. He had her tied to the bed she cannot even go to the bathroom she had to urinate pants did extreme acts of stat sodomy Ana finally got I took it downstairs in the street and she tried to make her be a prostitute told her every trick in the game, what to do, etc, etc. However, she didn't have the nerve to even look at it another fellow and she couldn't go through with it because of this. She received a terrific meeting. Finally she was able to get away she ran into us. We hooked up with the guy and we finally arrested him. And as you can see in the paper here, he faces 25 years he just pled guilty just yesterday. George Trapp That was a four week investigation by the way David Susskind He faces 25 years what from your experience will the judge likely give him Richard Confort okay in reality this person will probably he's predicate felon predicate felon. In reality, it means that he has to go to jail. He's already been convicted of a felony. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. He has to go to jail. It's New York State law was recently enacted I think approximately about a year ago. Correct. There was nothing that the judge can do will help this fella has to go to jail in reality, his fellow blood although he faces 25 years, in cold hard reality, he will either do seven and a half to 15. But he will do the minimum seven and a half blood here happened to plead guilty he copped a plea plea bargaining to attempted kidnapping, which was a B felony. And he will do the minimum seven and a half John McCormick in Boston David we make an a point before we arrest a girl. Every girl we arrest we booked we tell her that no one has a right to put her on the street. And if she wants to talk to us about her activities with the pimp, she can come forward and we cover all weekend. And you know a lot of girls will say yes, that night you avoid the final sentence in a prostitution case, but they'll just pass out on it or testify sorry I David Susskind sorry I have to pause again back in a minute |
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INTERVIEW CONCLUDES:
David Susskind How do you feel about the use by police of decoys posing as hookers and or customers to make arrests George Trapp well in New York City. We try that. And as you know, because of the budgetary crunch. The police women just aren't available for that function. We did try it but in New York, there's a large transient crowd and it has minimal effect. John McCormick in Boston has the females we don't have any policewoman that pose as prostitutes. But we do pose poses tricks every night and we do get solicited David Susskind in California, Oakland, California, the newspaper there the tribune regularly publishes the memes of the men picked up with prostitutes and publishes them in the newspaper along with the names of the girls that have been arrested. It seems to have had a serious effect Edward Miller If we had that in Boston I'd be off for that. I believe also they have it in Detroit, and from what I hear it's had great success. You wake up the morning you see your name and address in the paper. I think twice I Richard Confort I believe that we're at work associations here in Manhattan, it might be 44th Street or 46th street, I believe that they had a campaign that that's somewhat similar to that where they would take a license plate number and try to track it down. George Trapp Put an ad in a newspaper for John McCormick we don't publicize the names. But we when we get a trick with a prostitute. We do someone's I'm in a court and he comes in to testify. And we hardly ever see him as a repeated trick. He it's embarrassing to come to court, take the morning off of work. can explain it? David Susskind What do you say to those people who would want to see prostitution legalized? The San Francisco police chief says there's no way we can eliminate it Edward Miller I have never yet met a person who wants prostitution legalize. That would have his 17 year old daughter 18 year old direct map and say, Dad, I want to be a prostitute and have him say okay, go ahead. Oh, no, it's always somebody else's mother or daughter or John McCormick someone else's area. George Trapp Yeah, that's correct. Very Arthur Stoecker What area do you put it in? Whose backyard and whose neighborhood do you put it in? A lot of the people that are pro Yes, we should legalize it if you go to them and say, Okay, well, we're gonna legalize it, but we're gonna put it right on your block. You die, I'm sure. John McCormick Prison they say I went to prison in this town. Oh my god. Richard Confort We've recently had a woman that complained to us that the prostitutes were underneath a window. They're just making so much noise, says officer Could you maybe talk to them and move them up the block a little bit but not in front of my window. George Trapp She didn't she didn't want to arrest it. David Susskind Going back to the Boston theory. What about a permitting, legalized prostitution in designated areas the combat zone was city Detroit has a combat zone John McCormick but not yet that would legalize prostitution. Well, I don't think it would work if David Susskind that were massage parlors were legalized where prostitution goes on our winked at but John McCormick we don't get it in Boston. David Susskind What do you do about massage parlors because John McCormick we go in and arrest and other areas friend for prostitution. Sure, and they'll do the first your initial contact is they'll give you they'll solicit you for massage. But then also the other half is for the sex and we arrest the, right there as a solicitor's. There's a do an awful lot of work on the boston area on massag parlors David Susskind massage parlor ladies say that they can spot a cop 8 blocks away John McCormick you know, you can, you can show your records so we can tell them at their foot. Edward Miller They also they can spot a cop eight, eight blocks away. I've had a girl solicit myself five times. And she she's with coke bottle glasses, and she had them off on it squinting, she finally solicited me. I said, Beverly you want to invest? She says, Oh, not again. That's not fair. Yeah. Well, she's just George Trapp you all know until they were arrested. They always say the same around David Susskind Do you feel that you're caught in the middle between those who say it ought to be cleaned up this mess the pimps and the prostitutes? You want to get rid of them? And the civil libertarians who keep saying, yes, but it's a violation of John McCormick We have those that say it's just a victimless crime. Why don't you go do something else, you know, capture murder. George Trapp The onus is important. The onus is put on police departments, both Boston and both New York City. It's up to the police department to clean up the prostitution problem. Where it is that the police department is not a social agency. The police department cannot put prostitutes in jail. We arrest the prostitute and bring her to the attention of the court or bring the pimp to the attention of the court. And from there, it's up to the court to do with it. David Susskind Do you feel frustrated sometimes? A revolving door. give fines they go back on the street. Okay. Always tomorrow. Gentlemen, I want to thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming from Boston and telling us we'll be back to say goodnight. |
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SUSSKIND CLOSES SHOW:
David Susskind That's it for tonight. I hope you found it interesting. See you again next week at the same time. Until then, good night. |
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CLOSING CREDITS
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END REEL
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