NT-3280

The Eleventh Hour show opener

Show Host, Robert Lipsyte welcomes viewers and introduces two of America's top jingle writers joining him, David Buskin and Robin Bateau.

INTERVIEW INSERTED, BEGINS
Robert Lipsyte:
you know this the season something like $39 billion worth of products are going to be sold around the Christmas season. It sounds like you have a very big piece of that action, uh what is it about music that gets people to buy?

Robin Batteau:
Well, I think that it it tt reaches you without, it's like you can say something to somebody and have them feel that they're not being lectured because the words aren't getting to them first, the music is. You know, there's a lot of old rock and roll songs, you can remember extremely well except you can't remember what the words are. But you remember how it made you feel, you remember the sound, and and and sometimes the fury if there was a back seat involved. But the thing about jingles what is doing is kind of giving the message of the marketer a chance to get across without the without the wall coming up automatically when they feel they're being lectured.

David Buskin:
It's also something that if you hear it a couple of times, you might take it away with you. I mean, you can hear people sometimes singing a jingle against their will sometimes.

Robert Lipsyte:
The tremendous amount of consumption I mean, it's it's kind of this this frenzy of this of this period around Christmas with which which you guys are kind of added to. Do you have any feelings about that. I mean, its ah well, capitalism gone rampant?

David Buskin:
well, I think if you buy capitalism, then you buy advertising, then you buy jingles. I mean, I don't have a problem with it. Um it's ah the people that don't want to listen to advertising don't have to don't have to. There's an on off button and a channel zapper. And also they don't have to believe it if they if they choose. And we 're presumably talking to adults.

Robert Lipsyte:
But you guys are so skillful. And it does seem to be something you know marvelously manipulative, about the fact you're not telling me to buy a Chevrolet, which I say, what do I want a Chevrolet for. You're telling me to become part of the pulse of the country.

David Buskin:
You're saying that advertising is okay, as long as it's not particularly effective?

Robert Lipsyte:
I don't know. I'm

David Buskin:
I have the same biased. I like product oriented advertising better. I like it when it says, you know, it's a lot of car for the money and it gets so many miles to the gallon and that stuff, but that's not the kind of appeal that's really in favor right now. It's much more emotionally based and we get a lot of requests. Please we don't want you to talk about products. We don't want you to talk about style and fashion and value. Just, you know, this is the kind of feeling we want to associate with the product. And that's that's our job to pluck the heartstrings.

Robert Lipsyte:
did you guys come out of advertising or out of musical performance?

Robin Batteau:
Well, we we had both been writing songs and doing concerts and making records for years. David ran out of money first, so he got in jingles first, you know, and I followed a couple years later.

Robert Lipsyte:
Okay, now when, when you are writing a jingle, it's probably not unlike writing a song, you're still reaching for an emotional way of touching people. But this is a little harder, because the parameters are more narrow.

David Buskin:
it's harder, and it's easier to because it's easier in the sense that most of the decisions are already made, the length, the subject matter, the tone. The trick is take those very stringent limitations and still do something that strikes you as either original or captivating, or enchanting, or whatever it is that you're trying to do.

Robert Lipsyte:
Could you could you give us a musical example of, of how you would evolve something? I mean, do these kinds of things come in a flash?

Robin Batteau:
You know, there's generally someone from the ad agency will come over and, and show us a lyric sheet and something sometimes something pops into your head about what would be the best way to say this musically. Sometimes, you know, you can think about it for a week or two. Before you get a quite right. The uh I like to write quick, I tend to trust my instincts more than David who likes to spend time with it

David Buskin:
I like to naw at for a while, and you don't usually have that luxury though. Usually it's it's quick.

Robert Lipsyte:
Does it ever, how do you deal with the fact that you are probably two of the most famous unknown songwriters in the world,

David Buskin: 06:33
You can't always get what you want.

Robert Lipsyte:
What do you want?

David Buskin:
Well, I'd like to have my longer songs played as much as my shorter ones. But maybe that'll happen someday. We keep, we do perform on the weekends. And we write songs with and for other people, and we keep doing what we did before jingles. jingles is kind of a day job that got out of control.

Robert Lipsyte:
Well you both came out of the 60s, a time of political and social consciousness. It does seem, you know, almost probably countered to, to the way you came up in music, particularly in rock and roll and in folk. How do you deal with that?

Robin Batteau:
Well yes, there there's, there's some concern, you know, that have you sold out? I guess, is the obvious question that nobody would buy our records, so we had to sell something.

Robert Lipsyte:
Nonetheless, the bottom line is this, Christmas is not just about selling it's also about buying. That's according to our essayist Walter Shapiro, a writer at Time Magazine.

Slow pan interior book store, Pinnochio doll standing on book table. Books on shelves in bkgd.

Small child, boy, sitting on the lap of Santa Claus. Gifts wrapped in gold and fancy decorated Christmas tree. Boy waves.

Close up - Santa's hand shaking gold bell.

Pan up St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City at night.

Crowd of people jammed in retail store, trying to pay at cash register

Hand holding gold credit card, paper receipt is torn apart and handed to customer (only hands are seen)

very crowded retail store, people jammed in - some hassidic jewish men behind counter

Wide shot interior department store decorated for Christmas, people riding escalators up and down, large decorated Christmas tree in foreground.

Small Santa Claus toy replica

Walter Shapiro riding up escalator, standing backwards he's facing and talking into camera

Tilt down exterior A&S Department Store Plaza - large neon pole shaped structure sign

close up on the revolving glass doors (exterior of building)

Man in suit in department store holding clipboard (looking for shoppers to sign up for credit cards)

tilt down on Japanese shoppers in shopping mall

Kids, small boys playing with bouncing balls at shopping mall

interior tilt up FAO Schwartz toy store in Manhattan filled with shoppers

montage of shots animated toys, large stuffed panda bear, shoppers

man holding up Batman tee shirt for size

Back in the studio unseen Host Robert Lipsyte introduces next guest, Jerry DellaFermina, Chairman of Delphi Amina McNamee Advertising Agency.

INTERVIEW INSERTED:

Robert Lipsyte:
Jerry Della Fermina is chairman of Dellafermina McNamee WCRS, an advertising agency that bills $600 million and ranks in the top 20 worldwide, so he must know something about selling. That's a lot of money even at this time of selling. What tell tell me about Christmas. I mean, it seems to be the payoff for the whole year.

Jerry Della Femina:
It's the big payoff for everyone. I mean, you have two days in your life a year where you're going to be paid off and it's your birthday, and it's Christmas. And everybody's waiting for a payoff. I've got an eight month old son, I think he's waiting for Christmas. I can't believe it.

Robert Lipsyte:
you've told him too much too early. We've been listening to David and Robin. And it seems that music and in a sense, a more emotional and evocative kind of music is being used in selling now.

Jerry Della Femina:
It works. It's terrific. I mean, just listening to the sound. It's so you get into it. And in a sense it does for people who don't realize that they're buying, but they are buying, they're buying it. They're buying into the music. I mean, I'm the ultimate consumer, I buy everything. I look at late night television, buy anything. I spend a day I'm on there all night long, buying bamboo steamers, buying anything, you could sell me anything. I'm a typical advertising person.

Robert Lipsyte:
Well, if you have a product, you know, and you would hire these guys, I mean, how does that work?

Jerry Della Femina:
We have hired them.

David Buskin:
One of those I think was for you. The sunshine?

Jerry Della Femina:
Yeah, you're absolutely terrific

Robert Lipsyte:
What what kind of what what do you have to tell them about the product? What What do you want?

Jerry Della Femina:
Well, basically you tell them where you're going and what and what the line might be or where you're going. And at that point, you step back and let them do what they do best because the worst thing anyone would do is try to take talent like this and try to direct it or try to push it. So what we do is sort of sit back and enjoy and get the credit. I mean, we had it we had a commercial years ago which was a singing cat, the famed Meow Mix singing cat. And we just, you know, put music to it. This cat was choking actually wasn't really singing. We couldn't call it the choking cat commercial. So but the cat was just choking on a piece of the catnip. We did the cat Heimlich maneuver the cat.

Robert Lipsyte:
For those of us speaking for those of us who are not in advertising, I'm less amused and one would think because there does seem to be something manipulative. I read the hidden persuaders by Vance Packard, there's something manipulative about the idea that you're not giving me information. What you are, is you're somehow subtly plucking my heartstrings.

Jerry Della Femina :
I think that that's that's the way you sold everything. I think that what happens is, people really try me just the way you said this your voice. Yeah, there was drama. I mean, you didn't just present that flat. You said, plucking my artery, you've tried to sell us on on this, this feeling. Same thing is what we're doing, we are out there selling. And the fact is that this is probably the best method of selling. If music works. That's really what we try to do. I think that the consumer out there is pretty is pretty shrewd. And the fact is that I have a great deal of respect for that consumer. They can walk away from it. I mean, and they don't have to buy into everything and they don't buy into everything.

Robert Lipsyte:
You can't walk away from it. It's everywhere. It's coming in. Oh, it's a guy elevators. Yeah. Okay, "plucking your heartstrings" you know, this this thing here which I did, sir. I throw it to you. He's just hired you to sell me "plucking your heartstrings". What's the first thing that goes through your mind?

David Buskin:
What is the product?

Robert Lipsyte:
what's the product?

Jerry Della Femina:
Oh, well, breaking your heartstrings

Robert Lipsyte:
All right. We're selling we're selling the idea of emotion.

David Buskin:
Selling the idea of emotion

Robert Lipsyte:
of plucking your heartstrings

David Buskin:
do we have a line here?.

Robert Lipsyte :
Do you need a line.

David Buskin:
Oh you always need a line

Robert Lipsyte:
the line is plucking your heartstrings

David Buskin:
So uh its the cholesterol count

Jerry Della Femina:
cholesterol level but it doesn't get to your heart.

David Buskin:
It doesn't get to you. I mean well we would try to surround it, I mean with the mood, you know what what is it that you're trying to say about this? What do you want people to feel? I mean, see a lot of ads were this TV or their pictures to go with it? Sure. That's

Robert Lipsyte 17:09
That's it that's great. It's a new product. It's It's a handleless hamburger or whatever

Jerry Della Femina:
it really doesn't

Robert Lipsyte:
get it doesn't get to your heart just it doesn't have cholesterol.

Jerry Della Femina:
You're getting into this. You should have been in advertising

David Buskin:
Heartburgers, heartburgers

Jerry Della Femina :
burgers.

Robert Lipsyte:
I know what are you thinking about? What's on your mind?

Robin Batteau:
Well having something else

David Buskin:
Can we get the cat back?

Robin Batteau:
Heartburgers

Jerry Della Femina:
burgers for cats. That's it good cholesterol. It's a good one.

David Buskin:
So we're going to show pictures of people playing with their pets

Jerry Della Femina
playing with their pets and lots of little kids playing with that that gets to me.

INTERVIEW CONTINUES AFTER SONG IS PLAYED:

Robert Lipsyte:
So I get the idea. Now you will have come back to Jerry.

Jerry Della Femina:
I take the credit for it, huh? Yeah, we get to take the credit for it

Robert Lipsyte:
you come back with this thing that you've written more or less on spec. Yeah. And you probably have hired some other people to

Jerry Della Femina:
No when you go to a music house you use stick with that one music house. Although some people

David Buskin:
A lot of, some people just put it out for

Robert Lipsyte:
do you make suggestions?

Jerry Della Femina:
I think that someone would say that that sounds terrific. You know, give it give us 10 seconds so we get some soul into it. You know some voiceover into it, sounds great. Keep it up. Yeah, that's terrific. I wouldn buy that I would buy that, and they're great. This is a commercial for

Robert Lipsyte:
Do you think in in an overall cosmic sort of a way that this is really good for the Republic, the idea that products are being sold that may or may not have any value or use to our lives, but it's being based on the talent and skill of these people, your talent and skill?

Jerry Della Femina:
I think it's I think it's fine. I mean, I think at this point, people have again, it's free choice. They can buy it, they can walk away from it. This is how we you know, this is what I do. I'm a salesperson.

Robert Lipsyte:
Yeah yes. So much particularly around Christmas time is guilt. Shame an almost kind of

Jerry Della Femina:
my favorite things.

Robert Lipsyte:
all those kinds of good emotions, right? That make us spend more than we need to, kind of give us ultimately financial hangovers In January,

Jerry Della Femina:
The three Wisemen went and bought a gift to the baby Jesus, they didn't say to you, there's a sale at that Bloomingdale's of Bethlehem. Let's go buy him something. They just said, Let's, let's bring a gift. This is what it's all about. People like to give gifts, they like to receive gifts. I don't think that the fact that we tell them where, when, how, what's available, really enters into it. People want things and they want it and they want that payoff. And the fact is that we're there to help them along, to give them a choice between one and the other. But we really mean they were guilty before we got to them. And the fact is they're going to buy whether there's advertising or not. They're going to think about it. They want it people want things. You know, if you take a look at Eastern Europe, they want things. They were told they didn't they didn't need it. They still came over the wall and they want things again, that's not going to change

Robert Lipsyte :
the three Wise Men started this and these three Wise Men are helping it along. Merry Christmas, Jerry Della Femina, David Buskin, Robin Batteau. For those of you who now need a little Holly holiday cheer,
we leave you with the Newark Boys Chorus School, I'm Robert Lipsyte.

African American boy playing piano.

The Newark Boys Chorus performs holiday song.

Show credits over hands on piano keyboard and boys chorus singing Christmas songs.