19901980s NEWS
The Eleventh Hour - Show #347
Original Broadcast Date: 3-26-90
Title: Roper's Return
Guests: Var. 10 New York Voters
Original Broadcast Date: 3-26-90
Title: Roper's Return
Guests: Var. 10 New York Voters
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WNET
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Title Slate: The Eleventh Hour #347. Roper's Return. Rec: 4/23/90. Dir: Andrew Wilk
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Blank
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Funding by announcer and charitable orgs overlay the Eleventh Hour graphic,
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show opener
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The Eleventh Hour graphic overlay wide shot of the studio - a
u- shaped table with 10 guests seated is seen. |
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Host Robert Lipsyte seated in front of 4 small tv screens with "Roper Round Table" on screens.
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Lipsyte welcomes viewers and talks about the 10 New York City voters seated in the studio. They will be sharing their opinions tonight with The Eleventh Hour on all subject matter including crime, education,money, murder, and perhaps even the earth.
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INTERVIEW
George massive rehabilitation or restructuring of the state's criminal justice system. I think it's it's bankrupt, with rampid plea bargains, plea bargaining and parole. And it's become a mockery to such a point that criminals don't fear it. They mock it, they know that there is no penalty, there's no disincentive. Robert Lipsyte That seems a little illogical. I mean, what do you really want to do? George I'd like to see less judicial discretion and more mandatory sentences for crimes from the bottom of the ladder all the way up. Because I happen to feel I think if someone gets away with a relatively minor crime, with very little punishment, they're just going to ascend the ladder until they get some more serious. Robert Lipsyte Do you think that's the biggest problem in the city right now? George I think it's the top priority, I wouldn't say but by a great margin. Certainly there are other problems here that are almost as severe but we have last year we had 1905 murders. We have five people a day getting killed in this city Paula who sits next to you told us last time that she's going to move out of the city. And one of the reason is because she's afraid you're afraid of crime? Paula Yes, I am. I don't feel safe at all. I haven't seen a policeman walking the beat, certainly not in my area. traffic problems arise there no traffic policeman that's on the optimal level. If I wanted to take the subway or walk or go to the theater, I feel threatened. I've cut down my lifestyle has deteriorated. I believe in punishment, as you said Robert Lipsyte When you say you believe in punishment what do you mean? Paula I do believe in the death penalty. Yes, to begin with. But I think if you start by saying that there is a hard core that will not be rehabilitated in prison, perhaps we should go back to the old fashioned way they should do to do hard time. Maybe that would be a deterrent. Robert Lipsyte Sophie Louise, do you think that would be a deterrent? Either the death penalty or hard time or toughening up the system? Is this what we should be thinking about? Sophia Louise I don't think the death penalty is a deterrent. And I know it would cost more money according to inside Albany, and other sources on our on our Roundtable, I'm also concerned about what that would do to us as a society, I'm more concerned with the death penalty relating to, to the rest of us rather than the criminal. But again, I'm much more concerned with getting to the the root of the problems in our society, the structure of our society, where where crime starts, not just starting at the top, I too, am very concerned about crime, I don't feel safe, I ride the subways, my mother was mugged last year. But I think there's a lot more to it Robert Lipsyte Then what is there to it? I mean, we've talked short term over here, what what's long term Sophia Louise We have to we have to find ways to get to the kids in the school systems, we have to find we have to find ways of of getting to teen mothers of getting to young poor parents who are not getting adequate nutrition who don't, who don't have access to good daycare facilities, getting them back to work into the workforce. So that there is a cycle of self respect that generates within the family within the structure the family emanates to and from community movements. Robert Lipsyte Jane, you're nodding your head, you think this is where crime comes out. And Jane I agree with Sofia, because drugs, for me is the number one problem in the city. And because when you look at the drug situation, you know, that's why we have the crime rate that we do. You're not well, well. Well, George may disagree. But on the trains, a lot of those people that are robbing people of crack addicts, the stores are being held up because of the crack addicts. Crack is a very number one problem in this city right now. And I think that there's not enough focus on drug treatment on demand. There are a lot of people who are coming into these facilities and are told there's going to be a waiting list. And you got to come back. Two months later, that person may be arrested. Robert Lipsyte How do you feel about needles a program that you know, has really gone down the drain and people don't want? Do you think that would work that would help? |
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Jane
Well, I think that instead of giving out just I mean, the free needles, a lot of people said that was going to encourage people to use drugs. I disagree. I think that heroin is a drug of choice. And I think that when people decide to use it is not because the needle is available, it's because of the problems as the fear has identified those sociological problems in which young people do not have self esteem, they do not they feel very often trapped. There are a lot of dysfunctional families. There's not enough counseling within the school system and a lot of these children who lack self esteem, go on to drugs, and later go on to crime and into the criminal justice system, which does not rehabilitate, which does not give counseling and referral for drug programs. And they go right back out on the street. And then they mug our parents tomorrow. And that is a vicious cycle. A Robert Lipsyte Derek is is nodding like crazy. But let me ask you, Derek, aren't we saying in a sense that society has caused all these problems, that it's not the individual who's totally responsible for their behavior? Derek I say exactly the opposite. I don't believe in society. I think society's what everyone calls everyone else. And I take full responsibility for what it is I am and will be. And I think that's the only way you can do it. I agree wholeheartedly with Jane. And Sofia's Louisa said, because for the first time I'm hearing a discussion of the problems in terms of values like self esteem, not in terms of how much money does he make it as you have a job opportunity? I am I am disappointed with regards to political parties, both Democratic and Republican, when all they seem to want to do is throw money at the issue. And it isn't money. I think that the problems that we're seeing in our society, not just in New York, but across America are the problems of the wealthy. The wealthy have had this problem for a long time juvenile delinquency. Alright, they didn't call poor kids juvenile delinquents. They call the rich Beverly Hills kid juvenile delinquent. The problem is what did the parents do? The parents threw money at them that day through they sent him to camps and they gave him expensive cars. The problem is not money to kid wanted to be loved. You wanted attention. You want it you have to have self esteem or concern for other people or concern for other people, rather than being so concerned about whether you're the only one being concerned Robert Lipsyte That sounds really good, but I mean, how is that going to work if you, you know, if you're the child of a child, if there's no money, if there's no help, there's no support if nobody if nobody does love you or care about you? Derek Well, the issue is, as long as any of the policies that are proposed are policies aimed at getting you to feel cared about then I can support them, but painting the halls more often. When it's not an answer, buying newer books every semester and giving the kids is not the answer, because the same kid can spend $140 for Reeboks, he could have bought a $20 algebra book if that's what he wanted. He didn't want that. I think that when we look at people, as people, not as future wage earners, which I think is an absolute shame that we look at people as if they're merely going to be future employees, they're people like little babies, where people, Robert Lipsyte I hear a psychological restructuring of society, which might be good. Alvin, do you have any thoughts about this? Alvin I feel strongly some child, or adult, Rob's some baby lady from a pocket book tonight. It's all our fault, society's fault. We've said it's our fault. And one of the things we're doing about you can't say, well, let's put him in jail longer. That has nothing to do with the law. we got to get stricter judges, we must do something we the crime rate is up. It's our fault. There's something wrong with the structure of our society. Robert Lipsyte you're taking that responsibility. Alvin Yeah, we have to Robert Lipsyte Lucius, are you taking that responsibility? Lucius I think when this crime thing, this has to start at home. There's so many mothers out there working today. When I was coming up, your mother knew where you were, she knew who your friends were, she knew where you had, where you were going, where you were coming from, and they and the people that you're associated with, is has to start in the home. And I think one of the things that can deter some of this crime if they start putting the mothers and fathers or some of these kids in jail for the first few months, and maybe they will be more responsive and keeping something but knowing where their children are. And a lot of the parents are afraid of their children. And I realized that they're in most of the families, the mothers have to work, the father's have to work because the cost of living as we know is enormous today, but that still doesn't absolve them of the thing. They have to be responsible for their children. And most parents are not they're afraid of their children and their children, tell them what they are going to do. And all the most of the young people today, the young girls wanted were four and five earrings in there because the drug money is so easy to them. And this is what they want. These kids don't want a job today, making 350 or 450. They want to buy cars. You see the young kids today, they're all driving Mercedes Benz I'm riding the subway and a bicycle if I had one, and these kids are they this is what they want. Because that they want that fast buck. |
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Robert Lipsyte
Well, if they're if they're driving a Mercedes Benz, they probably have a weapon too. So no wonder they're parents Lucius I was at my I have a cousin who lives in Harlem and I went to visit her a few weeks ago, I take care of her. And I was stunned on the corner, there were 15. And I'm not exaggerating, 15 young kids, and they had wads of money. And they didn't even know what to do with it. They were putting it on the street. And then one of them left and sat and a white Mercedes then a four a two door Mercedes coupe. I was stunned. And I had to go down and ride the subway. Robert Lipsyte David is is any of this resonating with you at all? Does this make sense? David Well, in a way it does. But I think we kind of bam, bam, bam Marvin single parents here. Because there are a lot of hard working mothers who do all they can to help their kids. I mean, not all criminals come from single one. single parent backgrounds. That's i don't disagree with me. There are a lot of rich kids out there who's doing crimes, because those stereotypical black Hispanic kid, there was focused on the first five minutes of every news. It's black and Hispanic kids doing this. And there we were, whenever anything happens in Long Island or whatever. So big news, front page news. That's what I disagree with that part I don't like Paula, one thing. Paula Continuing your your Yes, lose your train of thought, there is such a thing as sacrifice. If you're a parent, I think you have responsibilities and obligations as a parent. And that's not society's responsibility. Its daughter in the home. I'm also a single parent. And I did I work very often and often have two jobs to raise my son so we can be done. And I didn't look, look the society to say, help me, help me educate my son help me give him values. It has to stem from Robert Lipsyte Laura wants to jump in on this. Laura Of Course it's as a parent, it's your responsibility. But it's always everyone's responsibility to take care of the children. It's not happening. It's either you leave it totally to the government or you take care of it yourself. I think it should be a combination of both. But if you see a child and you can do something for it doesn't matter if you're the parent of it or not. But I think too, and not taking care of their children. Eric I was gonna say that, you know, the kids may be smarter than we give them credit for. They see what we do rather than what we say. And at a time. When Ronald Reagan the great communicator, you know, has been communicating Me Me and there's billions of dollars to bail out outright theft and fraud and savings and loan, not to mention, you know, leveraged buyouts and all this stuff naturally. Then, we come up with sort of cheap political solutions. Oh, well, tough in the criminal justice system. If indeed we put our values monetarily where our mouths are in said, right? We're going to invest in education, right? We're going to invest it in health care, right? We're going to invest it in making people more productive, because those are values that would not only that would not only have the benefits of whatever the government programs did, but it would send the message that we're serious about that. And that would help the parent part of it too. And those things together. Robert Lipsyte Is there any possibility that we don't really care? we don't we don't Sophia Louise You had a show you had a series of five shows back in the late fall, children at risk. And those shows and the and the, the presences, the percentages on those shows demonstrated how not only don't we care as a society, but the agencies specifically that are assigned the sacred trust of protecting these children don't give a damn. Now I think that we can help reinforce values by instilling self esteem in those who need help. I think we have to get out of that head of Well, when I was young, it was different. I think we have to get away from those kinds of value judgments. I don't think those apply in the situation's we're facing now. I think once we free ourselves, it'll help us just look at the problem, not worry about assigning blame, look at what needs to be done. Look at look at the children today, look at families try to not just shore them up, but give them something from the inside. And if that means a lot of community intervention, which Dinkins had focused on as as a priority of his, then that's what we need to get to. Robert Lipsyte What do you think maybe Derek, do you think maybe we're kidding ourselves that we can actually do this without, you know, the highest levels of government in this society? |
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Derek
I think it's a crying shame that back in Reagan's administration, he made the call out to the scientific community to say we need SDI, and all of a sudden it was a rally to build SDI. Well, unfortunately, right now. And previous to this, we've needed the same sort of rally the rally with regards to psychology to rally with regards to caring and values. We have the people in this country who understand this just the way we have people on wall street who understand a little bit about how the markets work, but we aren't doing it you said do we care? I don't think America in general, I don't think in the course and I'm not a historian, but I don't think the course of human evolution, we have shown true caring in any society. I think I really don't believe so. And I think that when we go from whether the person brings in the bacon to being the warrior to being just a wage earner, when is he just the person and that's why I feel bad when we treat people like you're a future wage earner. And you matter because you're helping GNP, are you matter help keep this country safe. We know these kids are not cogs in a wheel. And if they're going to be cogs in the wheel, it's going to be a different world than we lay out for them. I agree with Eric, the kids are not dumb. They might be smarter than we aren't saying you guys are saying, well, this is not what you're doing. You're leaving me home with someone you don't know that well to go out and make a book while I'm home. I watch Miami Vice. Making a buck really makes life work. What signal is supposed to get when you come home at 830 saying hi, Johnny, I love you go to bed. I mean it kids getting mixed signals. Robert Lipsyte Let's go. Let's go back to George for a moment you started this is this where you think that we can solve these problems? George You may be surprised. But I agree almost wholeheartedly with a lot of what Sophia and Derek and Jane just said and some of what Lucia said and that yes, there's certainly a root cause to crime. I'm not ignorant of that. There are many root causes to crime. But all the fixes that you're talking about a long term, long term fixes that you're not going to see the results of for 10 years. Meanwhile, the bodies are piling up and people are having their lives ruined. Eric meanwhile, you're spending money on short term non productive solutions, which have gotten us into the cycle that we're in now. And then you're dooming yourself to a continuing spiral of failure, you're going to have to make the commitment to invest for the long term and hope you're going to do any fundamental and ignored fundamental reform that you started talking about. Robert Lipsyte Lucius, do you think we can do both at the same time? Lucius No, I don't. But I think what we need to do, we need to focus more on the good things like there are a lot of good kids in this country and a lot of good kids out there. We need to focus more on the positive things that these kids young people are doing today, rather than a negative. Robert Lipsyte When you say we who are you talking about Lucius I'm talking about society, all of us, all of us sitting here that the 11 of us that are sitting at this table tonight, and they are not all bad kids. And the way George is talking is if every other corner we got somebody killing somebody that were piling up the bodies like they did with the plague and put them in that's that sells newspapers George How much do you need? this is also the Daily News. Robert Lipsyte the scare headline Lucius It looks very Yeah, but it sells news papers George These are real headlines. we have 90% of the violent crime in the state Lucius But you buy that newspaper, you paid 40 cents for it, right? You read it and you get inside and it doesn't go into depth. It has that much inside and that's it. It doesn't go into the reason why it's happening. And I agree with you that they were read. Robert Lipsyte Possibly, Jane, do you think there's any possibly that this kind of headline scares us and immobilizes us from doing just the kind of things that you And Sophie Louise, Derek have been talking, Jane I have to be honest I, every day I read all four papers. And the post is very sensational when it comes to headlines regarding black and Hispanic very much what David was saying. And I know a lot of people who don't black and Hispanic people who say, I don't read the paper, because I mean, I'm tired of that I'm sick of that. Well, I read it to keep informed. And I cut out articles, especially regarding our youth. And there's a group called cmo tap, which is a black concern, which is focusing on in media. Robert Lipsyte And I know you saw our program on cmo tap two weeks ago. Jane Yeah. And they're leading a boycott on the polls, because they're saying now come with it. Now, there are a lot of things that are very positive what Lucius says that are happening in the communities. There's not being focused on a lot of people, not George, per se, but others may read those articles and headlines, and may say, My God, and every time when I get on a train, no matter how well I'm dressed, the woman that's sitting next to me if she's white, will look at me like I'm getting ready to mug her. I'm looking at her like you actually feel that I've had it happen to me, I look at her like she may mug me, I mean, come on. Now I'm just as vulnerable as the next individual. And I think that what is happening is that instead of just looking, I mean, get them all in a corner and lock them up is not the answer at all to this situation. And we we are living in a city and a society that is absolutely too materialistic. And what what Eric said, we have turned our back on our youth when it came to dynasty and it came to the Reagan era, everybody was walking around talking about open the champagne, and let's drink and toast. And our youth looked at that and said, if if it's all about money, then I want it and I'm going to get it I'm going to do anything I can to get it. And I think that we need to go back to basics. And we need more especially during the 60s, a lot of blacks went to college. Civil Rights Movement, put a lot of those people out do not have people like me, they became puppies. You know what they did, they went to Long Island, they moved away from the communities, they said, I got my I don't care about you. And I look at my own self and my own situation. And I say to young black professionals, you may have yours. But if you don't pay attention to someone else's child, then what you have is going to be taken you may very well lose your life one day. And it's go back to what Alin said |
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Robert Lipsyte
That healing has to come from within communities as well as from up there. Derek Derek I like to just lay it out because I think it's real clear where this happened. I think when when the people who wear the wore the white hats, and before about 20 years ago, the Kennedy King and the other Kennedy and some other people, when the people, the only people in our society who had great visibility wore the white hats and they got wasted, that sent a signal to everybody else. It is now time for me to get mine because I'm not willing to sacrifice for the future for anyone. And when we turn from being for everyone later do what we can do for to what I can get for me now we have a no holds barred get what you can get attitude. And that's the kind of thing we're seeing now. Robert Lipsyte Well, you've given us a theory as to why we've gotten into this mindset. But can you take that next step and say how we can Derek How did that happen? And how we can get out of sure you look at how we got there, because how did that propagate itself through through what you call society? It propagated itself through peer pressure. And the problem is people are buying $140 Reeboks not because the government or anyone's making them because they're the next the person that they liked doing it. In other words, we can get a few Robert Lipsyte Derek stop. Why is the person that they liked doing it because the person that they liked saw an advertisement on television, right? Derek No, because the person understands that having money and having possessions and having that makes you popular. And if it makes you popular, then I'm going to do what it takes to be popular and getting the girl if for example, if all late and this is just a little a little aside, but a little joke about this. But if all the ladies in the world that I won't have a boyfriend if he does drugs, all men would stop. In other words, that's one way to say that we can even we can directly affect everybody, by taking stances people make the statement here that we don't care about kids. You know, the kind of ridicule I got, when eight years ago I was a guardian angel at a 26 year old Wall Street person as a guardian angel. Why? Because I felt there's the kid saw a positive role model who could also do karate, and also speak fairly well. They might say, Oh, we can do other than breakdance. The problem is everyone looked at me as if well you shouldn't waste your time with them. Why should we not? How can we not turn away from that society? Who is society if it isn't us? We are society. Robert Lipsyte Sophia Louise. Sophia Louise I work in a I'm an instructor in a school, a college that works with a lot of inner city and minority people and gives them degrees grants and degrees in human services. A lot of these people are coming from poor communities want to go back into it and help the communities from whence they came. One of my students who's not one of the younger students that I have a woman who has a grown daughter herself and has been around. I had a conversation with her recently and she's been having a tough time this year. She got mugged at night at gunpoint coming home from school one night, she stuck with it. She said to me, You know we need a messiah here. We need a messiah we need we need a moment. There's somebody like that. And I said to her every time you have a role model, they get struck down, whether it was Malcolm or or Martin, they get struck down. And what do what do poor people have today is role models. They have the they have the high, the high white collar criminals and they have athletes who drive fancy cars. Robert Lipsyte If you people remember, remember when we were doing the mayoral campaign, you had a little bit of that feeling about David Dinkins as that kind of Messiah. Eric remembers that wasn't there that sense that he was going to bring us together and do it for us? Eric I was going to say that nobody can do it for us. I've just been reading Taylor branch's biography of Martin Luther King parting the waters. You know, Martin Luther King, didn't start out to be martin luther king. He saw a problem here and said, You know, I've got to do something about it. I can't wait for somebody else do something about it. You know, we're all potentially Martin Luther King in our own spheres. And to say, Well, David Dinkins will do it. Yeah. And and, you know, David Dinkins didn't know Martin Luther King, but in any event to say, Well, David Dinkins will do it or george bush will do it or some other which person if we only get them elected will do it is to start exactly in the opposite direction. It's our Robert Lipsyte alright Eric, you're you're saying that we've got to do it. now what is that? What does that really mean? What do we have to do, Paula Paula think if we're talking about the inner city and Bubbies, I think there's an obligation on the part of the black community to go back into the ghetto, and maybe each blacks person, take a foster child and help. I don't think it's society as a row as a whole. Robert Lipsyte What about the white community? Absolutely. They have to grow what should white people do? Paula I think they should do the same. If I think Bush's idea of everybody should be a volunteer in some form may be utopian, but I think there's it there's a valid reason for it Sophia Louise I don't see him going to a city hospital and sitting in the psych er while some crack Paula i think i think it's disgusting that there were border babies and they've just been people have had them and just say here, I pad them and walk away from them. Robert Lipsyte we are almost out of time. George, we're back to you to quick wrap up again. You You brought us to this this point about crime. How What are you going to do? George I've already told you I don't see any hope here as long as there's so many people that think exclusively the way these well think Robert Lipsyte obviously hope is what we need to we're all going to be back in a month. And hopefully we'll all bring some hope with us. |
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Round table discussion concludes. Lipsyte thanks everyone.
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Host Lipsyte announces with sadness the death of Channel 13's 31 year old sound engineer, Steve Donn.
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Lipsyte announces the show and introduces himself. Show ends.
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Pan out from studio - guests seated at u shaped table.
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Credits overlay show graphics
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Funding by announcer and charitable orgs overlay the Eleventh Hour graphic.
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Reel End.
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