DS-249

David Susskind in the studio introduces episode guests - celebrity paparatzzi
INTERVIEW INTRODUCTIONS:
David Susskind
Good evening I'm David Susskind. Jackie Onassis on the run Warren Beatty in a hot embrace Greta Garbo just about anywhere. pictures about those people or money in the bank for my guest tonight. They have paparazzi photographers who catch the stars when they least expected or wanted. Please meet my guest now first superstar of the paparazzi run girl his career reads like a series of headlines they are headlines sued by Jackie Onassis punched by Marlon Brando beaten up by superstars bodyguard and on and on he goes. Ron Galella has written several books about his exploits. His first was titled Jacqueline, and his most recent is off guard, a paparazzi Look at the beautiful people. Adams Scull received his first camera at the age of 10. He's been taking pictures of a sense Mr. Scull is currently a staff photographer for the New York Post. celebrity photographer for the New York Daily News Dick Cockery pursues the rich and famous in search of that very special picture. Gene Spatz changed careers six years ago to become a professional paparazzi. And his pictures are now seen in major publications, magazines and newspapers around the world. Now you are the famous paparazzi photographers. And I think we should tell the public immediately what we're talking about. And the best way to do that is to show them the pictures. Now let's start with you. Numero Uno.

Photo of paparazzi hiding behind a coat rack in a restaurant taking a photo of Jackie O

Black and White photo of Ali Mac Graw and Larry Spangler at Studio 54 - Susskind put a band aid over her cleavage

B/W photo of John Kennedy being restrained after a fight at his birthday party

B/W photo of Mick Jagger getting into a limousine. Jerry Hall peeking through in the back seat

B/W shot of Greta Garbo holding a napkin over her face

Photo of Frank Sinatra on a golf course in Palm Spring smiling

B/W photo of Warren Beatty and Diane Keaton

B/W photo of Elvis Presley soon before he died

Jerry Brown, Governor of California with Linda Ronstadt

B/W photo of Liza Minelli, cigarette hanging from her lips

B/W photo of Farrah Fawcett at studio 54

B/W photo of Lauren Becall and Woodie Allen

Photo of Margaux Hemingway a little tipsy at studio 54

Photo of Jackie O as God Mother at a baptism

Photo of Greta Garbo on NYC street

Action photo of fight at John Kennedy Jr.'s Birthday party

Photo of Al Pacino dancing

Photo taken at Studio 54 (party for Bianca Jagger): Mikhail Baryshnikov and Mick Jagger

Woody Allen with Diane Keaton

Photo of Jackie O on a horse during a fox hunt in NJ

Photo of Truman Capote in white suite and black mask over his eyes

Woody Allen and Dick Cavett

Photo of Pearl Bailey and Douglass Fairbanks Jr

B/W photo of startled Salvidor Dali with wife

Back in Studio

INTERVIEW RESUMES:
David Susskind
you spend your life sticking out celebrities photographing them, when they're not aware they're being photographed? How do you feel about them? Do they fake their resentment at being photographed being interviewed,

Dick Corkery
I myself, I find them more, I don't know, more compassionate life than most people are more sensitive. And most people were in the theater and they'd like some more privacy than actually what we give them. But I don't know if it's I don't care what

Ron Galella
the publicity they love it. Especially when our anonymous they they want to be recognized. They want their picture taken. They want their names in a paper. But it's when they become superstars that it becomes ambiguous and contradictory.

David Susskind
Jacqueline Kennedy, she could avoid half of the pictures and publicity she gets. She didn't have to go to that party. She didn't have to see a movie at the theater, she could have a screening,

Ron Galella
right? She goes to openings now. Ballet

David Susskind
she wants the publicity

Dick Corkery
their private life. See once they become public when they come to it. Yeah, an affair that's going to be covered by newspapers and TV, then it's public, what their private lives I thought you were talking about when we wait outside their homes, and go to their estates where they're riding horseback and whatnot, and somehow sneak into it and get in there and capture them.

David Susskind
Which of the big stars really sabers publicy the most loves it. Even though she gives you or he gives you a hard time

Gene Spatz
, Suzanne Somers loves. And she's very gracious about it, she makes sure that she stops and make sure that everybody gets

Ron Galella
All the Charlie's Angel. Girls love it, right. In fact, most of the TV stars like you'd hardly find one bad TV star. Tell me one caveat.

Dick Corkery
Jackson was just in here last week in New York. And like, she didn't want the publicity, she was talking, she came out of the elevator. And she hid immediately and then caught herself, and then thought that wait a second image image. And she smiled and walked out a little fast while she wasn't going to run because we want to be cool at

Ron Galella
that point we want to make here is that they want the publicity, but they want it on their terms. They want to control it, you see. And we on the other hand, we want to control it. We say we the artists were the press. And if there's freedom of the press, we have a right to say what we want when we want to photograph them in public areas. It's fair game. That's the conflict. The controversy is they want to control a picture they say like that Barbra Streisand, she wouldn't like that picture that we showed, because it's not a flattering picture.

Adam Scull
But getting back to the question you asked, you said how do we feel about it? We always think that it's a problem because we don't like having to bother them. We know that some people are very, very conservative for the press. And they don't want any. It's always on our minds, but that we're not there to dwell upon that. We have to go out and do an assignment or a job or that's our business. We have to do it.

David Susskind
Is That somebody can't stand that you

Adam Scull
Oh there quite a few.

David Susskind
Who can't you stand?

Adam Scull
I don't know I can't stand I find it frustrating to work with someone like Woody Allen or Warren Beatty

David Susskind
Why do you dislike Warren Beatty,

Adam Scull
because he is so much in the public eye. He won't stop for a moment and have a picture taken over.

David Susskind
Are you jealous of him and frustrated by him?

Adam Scull
Not at all. I just want to know,

Dick Corkery
but he doesn't push for publicity ever. I think Sylvester Stallone is a fellow who you could sort of dislike. I mean, he's sort of

Ron Galella
went to his head I think fill me fill me. Rocky went to his head. It really

Dick Corkery
is he his bodyguards intimidate. He plays I'll never have that trouble. Warren Beatty, Warren Beatty will just walk by he'll put his head down. He's not gonna cooperate for the picture. But yeah, push anyone. He'll never intimidate anyone. So true. There are levels to

David Susskind
it. In other words, you don't like him even though he doesn't push you. You don't like him because you think he's a snob or I don't

Gene Spatz
like him because he won't give us a decent picture. He's at an event. He could just be nice enough to walk by with his head up instead of trying to spoil on

David Susskind
well, he has just spotted some lady up there. A hurry. Hurry, you should get Joan Collins autobiography and read

Adam Scull
one night. One night Beatty and Diane Keaton were together and think it was in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. This new exhibit opened up, I forget, which

Dick Corkery
wasn't it Abbot de Lebanon

Adam Scull
And they barrel through it, we started to chase them. And he they're going full steam ahead and they and they walk right into the elevator, they could have taken the staircase and they didn't. So they're in a sense, they give us the opportunity, even though he keeps his head kind of low. These elevators are very slow. So we were there for five minutes. And then we walked into the elevator with him. Although he wasn't helping, he still gives the opportunity even though he seems not to want.

Ron Galella
Yeah, I caught them in Beverly Hills restaurant. And that's the Shot Show when they were walking. And he did say to Diane Keaton, he says Keep your head down. Don't make it easy. He said don't make it easy for him to get pictures. And he likes me too. I mean, he's not bad. And he and they try to duck me in another restaurant for coffee or drink. But I went in and got a drink myself. And they sneak out the back way and I think that the back way after them. And I got the shot of them walking across Beverly Wilshire Boulevard when I went to the hotel, and I anticipated they have to look up to the traffic and that's how I got that shot because they had to look for the traffic. And I caught them.

Adam Scull
We always have to try and second guess them because they're always trying.

David Susskind
Who else gives you a high Who else do you dislike actively? How do you feel about Streisand? Sinatra? Brando?

Adam Scull
What now you're talking about the three big leaguers that are just awful. You've named them all. As far as photographs go.

Gene Spatz
I don't think Streisand's awful, she'll come out and well,

Adam Scull
and I don't know. I mean, there was a party at the local watering hole and John Peters, your boyfriend wouldn't let us in dig tried to get in the back way. And he was personally thrown up by John Peters. He didn't care what the reason was. Said no press. They finally come out the door. They still won't stop. They just climb into a limousine. So we have a matter of five to 10 seconds to make photograph of these people.

Ron Galella
Well they have reasons these celebrities for not wanting pictures or cooperating for interviews. And some of them they usually start out like Streisand wanting it but then they come across bad press bad things about them. They concentrate more on her physical makeup rather than her talent. So in this shatters their egos?

Dick Corkery
Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because that's very true with Barbra Streisand. She had named the publication, I was going to set up a picture shoot with her. And she had said, Okay, I want to in writing that I have approval of the pictures before they're published. I want it and also you cannot sell to such and such national distributed weekly, magazine newspaper type thing, because she said they'll take that picture of me thrown on their front cover and lie the whole story will be a lie, she says, definitely has been writing. And that was the condition that

David Susskind
Any experiencith Sinatra.

Dick Corkery
I had an experience with him. He was with the governor and he had his charting for a time he was really nice. He's very good find his journey going with Governor Kerry and he had a bowl he invited us all in and we spent about an hour with him taking pictures and joking and laughing and it's the best I've ever seen. I've heard I mean I'm

Ron Galella
Sinatra the turning point where he was anti press was when he split with Ava Gardner. The press really played it up and he hurt his feelings you see and they become anti press when I when that happens. It's just too much to take and a lot of it is lies that the press especially the writers I have to say it is more irresponsible writers that they create lies and black and white print. And we suffer we photographers and we the reason why we suffer is because where they are physically in front of the camera and vandal slugs me or what the writer is not there. It's written in the paper and sometimes a pseudo name I don't even know who wrote

David Susskind
Did you ever catch your Mr Sinatra in an elevator with the the body guards he travels with?

Gene Spatz
Oh yeah, I've seen him coming out of clubs like that.

David Susskind
I mean, they're kind of scary

Gene Spatz
they absolutely are.

David Susskind
They look as if if you did something your

Ron Galella
way. All the stars. When we photographed them, you play it by ear, you know whether there's going to be trouble. You see, they give you a dupe they do give you a warning. Except Randall didn't. But most of them do. You could read their emotion.

David Susskind
I mean, when when you saw Sinatra in the elevator, you know it was coming out of 21 coming out of 21 Did the bodyguard say get out of my way? Oh,

Ron Galella
absolutely. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a woman photographer. Guy keys wife.

Gene Spatz
That's right. That's right.

Adam Scull
they make no discrimination. They think you're in your way and I'll make a point of pushing it out of the way.

Ron Galella
many negative things said about us like Sinatra, he would say We're parasites. And he said, What do you make a living? He looks down upon us. And I think he lacks humility. Because not all of us could sing.

Gene Spatz
Tell you, David, I had Burt Reynolds body guard grabbed me through a car window and nearly pull my arm out of my shoulder, because I had been following them on for a movie set and trying to get pictures of him. And so I got out of the car and had to tell him that he wasn't allowed to do this. And you know that I would call a cop and he damn well flatten me. Okay, real close to just annihilating me.

Dick Corkery
But burt Reynolds is kind of cooperative, isn't he? Yeah, yeah. himself, he's really professional. And he'll smile through the ordeal of 1000 places and it's like an assault. He get 13 photographers on someone in flashing and, you know, he's just coming to the theater to enjoy the theater and some of the theater will tip off the press and paparazzi that hey, so and so's coming for publicity for the theater, not for him. So everyone waits for the celebrity show up 20,000 flashes go off the portfolio, don't know where he is something get angered. But Burt Reynolds handles himself.

Ron Galella
Most of the celebrities are professional, you know, it's just about 15 or 20 that we discussed, the elusive ones who are anti press,

Dick Corkery
but they seem to be the top ones they seem to at some point get fed up

Ron Galella
with some of them also played a game that the more rare that picture is taken or the interview, the more their stock goes up, you know, the more the create the demand for their pictures and cetera

David Susskind
at the end of the thought, because I was gonna throw it away. Yeah. Commercial now. While you think of another fun, we'll be right back.

Studio Interview Resumes:

INTERVIEW

David Susskind
You know, we're getting tired of some of the people that appear in stories and pictures over and over again, but we've we've had funz, the funds, I think we've had farrah faucet. These are diminishing returns, I'm getting a little bit surfeited with Travolta, do you think that they reach a point of diminishing returns? Yes, too much saturation, overexposed. And then when they have some bad pictures, like Travolta is moment by moment, is enough to say, Okay, I don't want to hear about him for a while

Adam Scull
well, that determines how they behave to the reviews of new films. If they get wonderful reviews, they're expansive and worldly. They'll give you all the pictures you think you want, or they want. And if the critics pan the film, you might as well just tell us for

David Susskind
actual moment by moment was different than after Greece?

Adam Scull
Well, yeah, because everybody knew moment by moment wasn't exactly what everybody thought it was going to be.

Ron Galella
I think he's consistent. I just agree with I think he, it didn't go to his head, the successes he had. And where I think Sylvester Stallone did that one movie, he thinks he's God.

Dick Corkery
He does walk around on the cloud. And he does hire some tough people to robotic God. And

Adam Scull
I don't understand why he does that when he's so big himself. He could very well take care of himself. Every time we photograph when we have a caption that says Sylvester Stallone was seen walking with his muscle. Man is big.

Ron Galella
I think it's an act. You know, it's the same thing with the Caroline John Kennedy birthday party. Teachers, his friends try to act like bodyguards around and put sunglasses on him at night coming out with body guards

Dick Corkery
THey were protective of them. Yeah, the young fellow didn't want his picture taken. I mean, he just didn't want it. I spoke to him after that. And he's just they never let me alone. He said he'd like awfully much just delete a little private life and wherever he goes with it with cameras, harassing them in a way and it is harassment. There's no doubt about it. We chase him through Studio 50. Yeah. He goes to a birthday party. We're trying to crash it. We're trying to get in there. When he comes out where we're assaulting him with flashes. I mean, it's touch

David Susskind
Why are we paying so much attention to the children of celebrities. I mean, who cares about calvey

Adam Scull
They lead a charmed life, particularly with them? Everybody wants it recorded for posterity.

David Susskind
No, everybody doesn't.

Dick Corkery
I mean, is a great human interest in the future, the future Kennedy children,

Ron Galella
future politicians, maybe the future president. So there's a future there of the Kennedys anyone and then a royalty of America. And I think it's valid to photograph them because the public wants to see them.

Dick Corkery
That's interesting. She's She is almost a queen. Isn't she in the eyes of the public when she was raining as the First Lady? It was a royal family. Yes. So maybe perhaps that's it? I think we're on it right on the head.

David Susskind
Yeah, but you're perpetuating the dynasty in the amount of attention that you force to be paid. Well. Why don't you let the children go to school and get jobs and be on their own? Why is

Dick Corkery
this a great human interest to it? The readers want to hear They want to see it, read about him and

Ron Galella
see how we are exploitive, we exploiting them. We exploit these celebrities of course they exploit us the press two works hand in hand.

David Susskind
Why don't you leave lee Radziwell along the poor lady

Adam Scull
It's not a question of light here it's just that we have no more interest in her because she's not socially redeeming valuable news you see

David Susskind
She's an interior decorator. Isn't that good enouch?

Ron Galella
Yeah well go interested in romances Oh, marry or have a new boyfriend. That's what the publication's are interesting items. Items appear like newsmakers, they have to do something.

Adam Scull
But it's hard to tell because from one day to another, somebody said somebody out somebody out somebody said it's very hard to tell who they want

David Susskind
Who is in today who's really in well I guess

Ron Galella
Robin Williams I think Robin Williams Mork and Mindy. Yes TV show. He's definitely in what he's great comic. Seems to be

Dick Corkery
TV you mentioned TV. TV now. No more movie stars movies. It's tough. Everyone is more relating to TV personalities. All angels. Are some of the stars on the soaps

David Susskind
you don't think electricity and Faye Dunaway or not to what it used to be No,

Gene Spatz
there is David but in terms of a national readership, TV because it's every night, every week, has a greater appeal and grand themes

Ron Galella
and audiences stay as an audience. We look she did network, great picture. But that's two years ago, whatever. That's right. See what the angels every week, people turn them on. Its power. The TV is the greatest power. The network's that's why there's a big battle going on with the network's and who gets the ratings and all that so that race and TV stars that are on a spotlight today are the hot ones, not the movie stars.

David Susskind
But TV stars come and go. In other words, one season The Odd Couple is a big hit. And Tony Randall and Jack Klugman. And now it's off. That's right now you would have lost interest in Tony Randall?

Gene Spatz
Not necessarily. They Klugman and Randall were just together a few nights ago here in New York for a benefit. And people still want to see pictures of those guys together because they remember the show and they still love them.

Dick Corkery
I think they film the show for five years. They're showing reruns in New York at least. They're showing them twice a night. One at seven and one at 11

David Susskind
I guess Carol Connors a big hit Jean stable. Yes,

Ron Galella
yes. But it's not just who's hot. That's one factor.

David Susskind
Who would you most like to photograph? Whoom Would you like to photograph?

Ron Galella
Princess Caroline? I think

David Susskind
you see a picture of her and Look magazine, lying on the boat.

Ron Galella
Nude or something I heard. I didn't see it. But

David Susskind
when I look at such pictures, I automatically put on band aids. Men are very television oriented. And we don't allow such things. Now, English television does but we don't have that here. But she was on the deck of a ship very

Ron Galella
well, the point I'm making is that it's not just who's hot. It's it's the unusual pictures. You get like she's unusual on the tech news.Richard Corkers picture of Truman Capote he knew that's unusual but yeah to watch pictures like that it's a bit of taste you know it could it publications will run it

Dick Corkery
will Truman was clad you know, he did have a towel. Yeah. What right

Adam Scull
Ron is alluding to the fact that he took a picture of Ali McGraw and he was banned from my location of shooting for a while. Why are you talking about in such roundabout manner?

Ron Galella
I brought that up already.

David Susskind
Well, when you took these pictures, did you catch her in an off and awkward moment? Or was she truly coming out of the dress she

Adam Scull
she was exposing herself.

Ron Galella
She was dancing and she didn't mind. I mean, she knows she had no bra on and all that and she didn't mind the pictures. I heard that she didn't mind the pictures. But studio 54 with the rebel claims that she did mind which

Adam Scull
brings up a very valid point here. Every time we hear people say I love pictures no further. It's never the celebrity saying that. Agent is the only

Dick Corkery
point you know, I tell you, it does get aggravating to them. The celebrities are up to here. We went to the Broadway opening of Lucie arnaz the other evening right. And her mother came in right Lucille Ball and you photographers paparazzi stayed on with their long lenses looking for headshots honor and they just stayed on our every time she just go to sip a drink to light a cigarette do this. constantly stay in order. There has to be a little control in a restaurant if the woman's there and coming to her daughters party you know it up take a few pictures. Let her be

Ron Galella
Yeah. But he Adam brought up a good point that I don't find that the celebrities are too difficult. It's more their agents so over protect them and people around them like bodyguards who over protect them just like Travolta's chauffeur got out of his limousine to assault a friend that was shooting pictures through the window, the limousine or it was in the limousine, he could have pulled away, any other chauffeur would have pulled away, this guy gets out, just the bank wants to be a big shot. And he knocked a tooth out of this poor fan. And he got his head and bashed it against the limousine. I got the pictures on random star. But there was no reason for that. And I don't believe he was ordered to do this. He just took it on his own. This is the problem. Your mind you don't mind if the star says get rid of these people. But I think what's happening is the people around the star want to want to be big shots want to be important. And they take it upon their own their own authority and knock photographers around and push us around. It's a terrible

Dick Corkery
it's a tough assignment, this celebrity field. I mean, we go to a lot of places where not wanted where the celebrities are. It's not an easy it's

David Susskind
bulbs going off. Yeah,

Ron Galella
I think that's a negative point. That's true to bold. The stars don't like to see it all. They see stars.

Dick Corkery
Yeah, they do

David Susskind
we're pausing again. We'll be right back.

INTERVIEW RESUMES:

David Susskind
I think maybe some of the fear and antagonism of the celebrity is that you generally choose or the editor does the most unflattering shot Jerry Ford as president tripping coming off planes, hitting people with golf balls. Liz Taylor at her most ample. I mean, she now looks like a swollen lady, that you choose those shots. I mean,

Ron Galella
we don't choose the editors of the each publication that select if you

David Susskind
did a roll of film on those potato would you be inclined to take her shot the shoulder at the heaviest penalty?

Ron Galella
Well for you depends on the market. Some markets prefer those pictures. In other words, the way it looks like it's we treat the generally speaking the depressed treats celebrities, like a cartoon like a comic strip. And we make them fat, make them skinny and make them funny this way that we are always selling newspapers, you see. And they want to make the newspaper as interesting as possible. So they do things like that they even make create romances that well, they're they Diane and Warren split. But then they may not have split, he went to see his premiere in Paris and she went to do something else in New York.

David Susskind
How do you know this?

Ron Galella
Well I know because I, we see that we see these items in columns of newspapers saying they split and they that together again. In other words, they're creating news in a way is responsible.

David Susskind
Do you know if Warren Beatty and Diane Keaton are together. Yes.

Ron Galella
One place time. Do you know I don't know. Right

Gene Spatz
now we're at a couple of nights ago together.

Ron Galella
Yeah. So yet I saw these items in a paper that they split. months ago when he went to Paris to heaven can wait, his film opened up in Paris, so we had to go. But apparently she couldn't go with him because she had commitments here in New York. So they create an item they split, because he went along. See, you care. Not me because I'm not responsible. I what I do my pictures, I put a caption on. And I'm responsible I put the date, who it is and where it is, and maybe a quote if they give me a quote to star. And that's it. Now the same picture. One magazine will write one story, a true story and another one make me write a fantasy story. You see, it's the editors, the publishers of the of the publication just

David Susskind
so you see, they don't know what we're doing. That's the picture of the famous picture of Allie McGraw and her boyfriend dancing at the famous club in New York, that we had to deal with a band aid. So you simply said here's a picture of Ali MacGraw

Ron Galella
and Larry Spangler at studio 54 and a certain day

David Susskind
no family paper could print that picture

Ron Galella
that's true, only only Playboy

David Susskind
What did you get paid for that picture?

Ron Galella
$200 this was right.

David Susskind
What do you get paid? Is this a lucrative varies

Ron Galella
it varies according to publication Kasia budgets, you have a movie or TV Magazine for black and white they only pay $25. Now that same picture could go on a National Enquirer cover for $1,000

David Susskind
Right What would you get a grimacing Barbra Streisand or punchy Sinatra, what would that bring? If you had such a shot?

Gene Spatz
No, I don't know. 250 350 yes 250

David Susskind
what's the most extreme advice you ever got?

Dick Corkery
You people sell like rights, continent rights to some publication in England or somewhere for 15 2000 $3,000. They're inclusive enough,

Ron Galella
you're better off dealing with one publication at a time. Right? And

David Susskind
what's the most expensive price you've ever received for a photograph? And what was the photograph?

Ron Galella
Well, Jackie, on a cover of life like $1,500

David Susskind
That's the windblown jacket. No, no, we

Ron Galella
can color a college shot of her in New York.

David Susskind
Adam, what was your most successful

Adam Scull
wasn't one photograph, it was a series. When this watering hole studio 54 opened up, I made a point to stay there almost every night for the first eight months of its existence. And I sold the story with my agency Blackstar the picture agency, a whole story for $5,000 on the architectural area of it as well as the people and the celebrities that go in there. We sold it as a whole package.

David Susskind
You men who work for the newspapers, you're on salary, salary doesn't matter what scoop you get it?

Gene Spatz
I'm photographer David freelance, right?

Dick Corkery
We do. We do sell pictures at the Daily News and I get 50% of their sales. If I had taken the photo,

David Susskind
what's your most successful picture?

Dick Corkery
There have been several does you know picture was good with Caroline. Princess Caroline. That was good. That went for several $1,000 That was a total exclusive. The other one was, well, the Donnybrook outside with the Kennedy boy involved. That was another very high priced picture several $1,000 easily, maybe six $6,000 total.

David Susskind
Are there any shots you took that you wouldn't sell? I met you wouldn't print it.

Adam Scull
Yeah, I was threatened him my legs broken.

David Susskind
By whom?

Adam Scull
Richard Pryor. And I believe, Oh, you laugh. This man is a tough guy. And I believed him. I photographed him one night, and he was letting his wife dance with another person. And he kind of saunters up to me, and he says, career, just want to talk to you for a minute. Those pictures he took on the dance floor? Should I receive them anywhere? All I don't know you. But I'll come find you. And I'm going to make sure you both of your legs get broken. And for some reason, I believe. I know his reputation in the field, which is not exactly pleasant.

David Susskind
Well, but was there a picture taken? Not that you were threatened? That you said no, I'm not going to print this.

Gene Spatz
I have a picture at home of Shirley MacLaine. After she did a show here in New York and an opening. And her hair was wet from perspiration. And she had on a smock, her makeup was off, and she was wiping a bead of sweat off of her nose. And it was just an awful picture. And I refuse to let somebody publish that, because it just looks so bad. You know of her. Just it was just rotten picture.

David Susskind
And take your code of honor. What did you plant yet?

Dick Corkery
I'll be honest with you the pictures I make they're usually flattering.

David Susskind
In the back of our limousine?

Gene Spatz
No. That was oh, that's your that was my?

Dick Corkery
No that was Genes. Oh, actually, I can't think of one picture that we wouldn't publish that I've made. They're all fine. No problems at all with people they made. Perhaps the stars may not like them. They may they may like their image. But again, they don't know they don't have the right to choose. It's up to our editors over the fashion. Probably on the whole don't make people look bad at The Daily News. We don't do that. Some of the weeklies May

Adam Scull
Just kind of naturally. Just kidding. Well, you see, we

Ron Galella
have our reputation on the line. And naturally, we pick out the best pictures at least I do I pick up my best and in good taste. You know, good picture. You don't get picking noses or anything like that. We don't look for that. Really? At least I don't I mean, we tried to do. I think for the most part, the medium. It's a it creates glamour, the whole thing. Photography.

Adam Scull
I don't know. I beg to differ on that. If I had to do all over again. I wouldn't go near this. No way.

David Susskind
You don't like what you do.

Adam Scull
I do. I love it. I felt like heaven touched me when the New York Post finally hired me and I love it. But if I had to do all over again, when I remember the times that weren't so good as they are now I would I would have gotten it to film and video. Because this is a real dog way of making a living freelance photography. I applaud anybody who doesn't well. It takes a lot of gumption, patience, salesmanship and everything. I was very lucky. I tied up with a picture agency that sold pictures. I don't think I would have gotten anywhere near the people they sold to if I was alone. It's very, very rough way to do it.

David Susskind
You do it all over again. Would you Ron

Ron Galella
Oh yes, I love it. Where can you find Find a profession that you could have so much freedom, I go out and shoot who I want, where, and rarely do I take assignments. I don't even want assignments now, because I know what it's all about coming up with good pictures. And I sell them and the whole thing is I my own artists, I select my own editor, and my own business man and I, I could do this in matter of hours, you know, you have a concept to go out and shoot somebody you have a picture, a tangible picture right here in your hand. In a matter of hours, you see, and we got opportunity. Just right. I'm just selling

David Susskind
How much money Do you make a year? What do you report to the government?

Ron Galella
I mean, over 80,000 this year gross.

David Susskind
That's a very good living.

Ron Galella
It is and I could make more if I want to, but I I have, as I said, I love doing what I do. My way in other ways I could go where the money is bigger money, but I don't want that. I want the freedom.

Adam Scull
How long have you been doing it

Ron Galella
Oh for 20 years? All right.

Adam Scull
How many people have been doing it for 20 years? Not many at all

David Susskind
secretly hunger after Mrs. Kennedy Onassis? Not now. I mean, your fantasies?

Ron Galella
Not really. So much times. Really? Yes. But it's she was an ideal subject. You see, this is a reason there's many reasons why I went after Jackie, she was an ideal subject because she was a mobile subject. She moved and didn't stop. See this is when you stop and pose for the camera. You've got the picture. You have to cooperate at a courtesies that's it? Most professional actors do that. But Jackie does not do that. She don't really stops glancing at you. That's about it. But always on the move and doing things so to me, that's an ideal subject because they never end to get more pictures and more pictures. You know, I mean, it's

Gene Spatz
anyway, can you as her sister's sexier.

David Susskind
Okay, on that note, we'll pause and come right back.

Cut to Break