NT-3400

Title Slate: OUT-A-Town Meeting. Rec; 6/23/90. Dir: Andrew Wilk Prod: T. Harris

Funding by Announcer, KQED Members San Francisco and Members of Thirteen WNET in New York

Peaceful Gay Pride parade in San Francisco 1990, people holding American flags posters, banners and walking peacefully down the street. Narration by host from sister station in San Francisco, Ginger Casey.

Quick wide shot of studio, Host Robert Lipsyte seated with guests at a semi circle panel facing viewers (unseen)

Lipsyte explains the format for tonight's program - an electronic town meeting between Channel 13 studio in New York and sister channel in San Francisco (KQED Channel 9).

Wide shot sister station in San Francisco, KQED, four guests seated on chairs facing audience.

In a split screen Lipsyte introduces his co-host in San Francisco, Ginger Casey .

Back with Lipsyte he announces the topics of three documentaries to be shown on the program dealing with the change in concept of family, the lesbian experience in suburbia and black men confronting homophobia and racism.

Fade out.

B&W photo still of gay and lesbian protestors standing behind police barricades holding signs, policemen lined up ready for action.

Clip of demonstrators holding various signs. Man holding gigantic sign in red "Stop Aids Now" and others following including large sign of Ronald Reagan's face with "Aidsgate"

Names of some of the hundreds of organizations serving the Gay and Lesbian communities scroll over the Gay and Lesbian Parade.

Several newspaper articles and handouts having to do with the Human Rights Campaign Fund overlay demonstrators holding signs.

Photo still two men, one white one black, embracing

Giant white letters filling the screen "AIDS"

Close up on faux 'headstone' KILLED BY THE SYSTEM

Demonstrators, gay men and women, holding signs and large skeleton dummy, walking peacefully down the street in San Francisco. Ginger Casey narrates demonstrators are protesting an immigaration policy against those infected with AIDS.

Tilt down on huge group of demonstrators holding American flags, large banners and signs and walking down the street in San Francisco

Nurse giving IV to male patient sitting in chair.

Wide shot teenagers filing out of front doors of High School, walking down steps

Demonstrators walking down street holding huge banner "Stop Attacks on Lesbians & Gay Men Carry a Whistle"

Host in SanFrancisco, Ginger Casey, introduces and welcomes her panel of guests: Jackie Goldsby, Editor Outlook Magazine; Cleve Jones, Activist and Founder of the Aids Quilt; Carole Migden, Activist and member of SFO Democratic Party.

INTERVIEWS WITH GUEST PANEL (SAN FRANCISCO):
Ginger Casey 7:39
I imagine we should open our program by discussing what agenda the gay community has as it moves into the 90s Cleve, perhaps you could start?

Cleve Jones 7:48
Well, I think the most important thing in the 90s is going to be reclaiming the political agenda that that predates the AIDS epidemic during most of the 80s. Most of us have had to concentrate all of our energies and resources on the epidemic because of the lack of government response. In the 90s. I think we're going to have to go back to the issues that came before that family issues, the question of violence, and also in particular dealing with the issues of youth in our own community, and the divisions of racism and sexism within our own community.

Ginger Casey 8:18
Jackie?

Jackie Goldsby 8:19
I would agree with Cleve on the point about racism, it seems to me that as we move into the 90s, that the agenda has to change. And it seems to me that that including race is very critical to even expanding the definition of family that we're trying to put forward into account for the presence of lesbians and gays of color, as an affirmative presence that we have thoughts, ideas and a political agenda and a sense about politics to offer as well.

Ginger Casey 8:48
Carol

Carol Migden 8:49
we have to expand the agenda. We still have a lot of work to do on AIDS, we'll continue to do that. That's increasingly important. We've made some inroads but let us not forget that age is also going to dominate in the 90s as well. We have to get back to issues of discrimination and get legislative protections. On the Job side in the workplace. Our relationships have to be validated. We got to pass domestic partnerships. We have people in our audience with sprite T shirts, they're enthusiastic. I think it's important that we get back on track with things that are positive that are life affirming. And also be mindful that we have a lot of still a burden ahead with regard to AIDS.

Ginger Casey 9:22
Let's check with New York and see if the agenda there will be any different Bob.

INTERVIEWS WITH GUEST PANEL (NEW YORK)

Robert Lipsyte 9:27
Thank you, ginger,

Robert Lipsyte 9:28
Dr. Marjorie Hill, let's start with you. You're in City Hall in New York. What is your thoughts about the agenda for the night

Marjorie Hill 9:33
Well one of the primary concerns for this administration and for many lesbians and gays in the city is the issue of increasing violence against lesbians and gays? Many of us know that nationwide, violence against our community has risen 122% And that's just not acceptable. The second issue is that our community has a real task to make sure that our representation is diverse and inclusive of People of Color of women and also of individuals with disabilities. So I think that dealing with the issues around violence, domestic partnership, as well as making sure that our representatives are truly as inclusive as possible on the issues that the Dinkins administration and many of the activists in New York are concerned about

Robert Lipsyte 10:19
Thank you. Gabriel Rotello

Gabriel Rotello 10:20
I agree with what everyone has said so far, one thing I would add would be trying to create a sort of spiritual climate within the gay movement that encourages people to come out of the closet, I don't think that we're going to see a lot more progress than we've seen in the last 20 years, unless a lot more gay and lesbian people come out of the closet. In order to do that a lot of social, a lot of the social agenda has to be moved forward. But within the gay and lesbian community itself, we have to sort of create spiritual models for gay and lesbian people that encourage people that are in the closet to come out. And I think that we're beginning to see us doing that right now.

Robert Lipsyte 10:53
Tom Stoddard

Tom Stoddard 10:54
Gabriel just made a very important point. Change has to be along two tracks. One is the law, where we work toward absolute equality for lesbians and gay men, as well as for all Americans. But the most important aspect really is hearts and minds of Americans, reaching them and making them understand that lesbians and gay men are people entitled to full and fair treatment on a social level, as well as illegal level and coming out is really the only way to ultimately accomplish that by making gay people visible to the rest of the world.

Robert Lipsyte 11:23
Ann Northrop

Ann Northrop 11:25
I certainly wouldn't argue with anything that's been said. So far. I agree with all of it. I think we have a long way to go, just fundamentally in getting ourselves exactly accepted as human beings in the first place. And I think the violence that's visited upon us, as Dr. Hill mentioned, is completely out of control. And I think that the heterosexual community has to put us on their agenda to and I think that it is wrong to think that we are a monolithic community, we are many communities, we have many agendas, and many priorities that are different among us. And I just want everyone to know that there are there is not one agenda. There are many

Robert Lipsyte 12:06
do you feel, Ann, that you said this is a problem for the heterosexual community

Ann Northrop 12:11
You bet it is?

Robert Lipsyte 12:12
What what must the heterosexual community do?

Ann Northrop 12:15
The heterosexual community must stop assuming that everyone in this world is heterosexual and must stop assuming that there is something wrong with homosexuality, and must

Ann Northrop 12:30
and the heterosexual community, if it is to survive itself must stop killing those who are different from it. The heterosexual community for its own peace of mind and survival as a species must include everybody of every sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, ability, whatever across the board,

Robert Lipsyte 12:53
Marjorie, of everybody at this table, you are closest to the precincts of power towards the power of the heterosexual community. Do you see gay people having the clout to make those kinds of force those kinds of changes?

Marjorie Hill 13:06
I think that lesbians and gays, particularly in New York City, are increasingly visible in city government. My appointment is one example of that. There are a number of leading gays and lesbians in in the Dinkins administration. I also think that in terms of our collective voices, that the administration and city politicians who caught the gay and lesbian community are very much aware so that I think that we are approaching a point where we are becoming more visible. That's not to say that we can all relax that there's a lot of work to be done. And on the note about the heterosexual community, one of the things that really needs to happen is that the education has to begin with our children, that our children have to learn about different types of cultures, different types of lifestyles, and that has to happen in kindergarten, second grade elementary school, that people form their opinions and values very early on. And the Board of Education has a real responsibility in that regard.

Robert Lipsyte 14:10
Thank you. The people in San Francisco seem to be closer to the precincts of power. Ginger, let's let's go back to you.

Split screen with Robert Lipsyte and Ginger Casey

Split screen Lipsyte and Casey speaking to each other about "outing"

Shot of NY studio from behind panel looking at audience

Host Lipsyte turns to GInger in SFO

Audience in San Francisco applauding.

WGBH bright yellow logo

Funding for the film by announcer. Charitable orgs mentioned and cpb Corporation for public broadcasting logo.

First of three documentary films with narration, "We Are Family" about gay men and lesbians becoming foster parents, the redefining of the traditional family structure, alternate families, and the potential implications on the children, and inside look at a family.

Film fades out another story begins, about a lesbian couple in Boston who adopted a young, black, deaf boy in 1980. Their everyday life is depicted in the film along with the obstacles they've faced.

Another segment within the documentary begins. Another "alternative" family is highlighted. Two gay men in New Hampshire foster a young boy and their life is depicted and the controversies and issues they face when a New Hampshire State Legislature, Mildred Englund, calls for a ban on Gay Foster parents.

Funding by announcer. cpb logo - Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

Cut over to Host Robert Lipsyte in New York. He introduces and welcomes new panel of guests, Mariana Romo-Carmona, Public Education Coordinator and Lesbian Mother; Wayne Steinman, Co-Chairperson Center Kids, Adoptive Parent; Gabrielle Low, daughter of lesbian mother.

Wide shot of half moon shaped panel overlooking studio audience.

Split screen Robert Lipsyte and Ginger Casey

INTERVIEW INSERT - PANEL DISCUSSION SAN FRANCISCO
Ginger Casey 1:29:28
what is the current status of law governing gay parenting,

Roberta Achtenberg 1:29:33
well the law governing lesbian and gay families in general is is not to pretty by that. I mean, of course, it is not legal for us to have publicly sanctioned relationships. In any state. We can't marry the people of our choice. And that's one of the reasons why we're struggling to achieve legal recognition as domestic partners for example, many of us are the parents of children. Run from a heterosexual relationship. And in many states, it is still difficult to keep custody of your child if it's known that you are lesbian or gay. As the movie pointed out, the film pointed out, there are many impediments to adopting children if it's known that you are lesbian or gay, even though in only two states, is it explicitly illegal for lesbians or gays to adopt. And finally, there's a tremendous need for loving homes for all the children who need to be fostered. And yet, lesbians and gay men who are qualified to be foster parents often find it very difficult to become licensed foster parents, even though they have a tremendous amount of love and affection and consistency, and material support quite often to give children in need.

Ginger Casey 1:30:53
Dimitri, did you find it easy?

Dimitri Belser 1:30:56
Well, we had an easy time. Once we've located a birth mother, we adopted our first child at birth, and we met his birth mother when she was just two months pregnant. It was easy in that we got a child easily it was difficult in that we were one of the first couples to adopt. And we were very open about it. And we got a lot of not hassles from social services. But we were

Ginger Casey 1:31:18
overly scrutinized perhaps

Dimitri Belser 1:31:19
And the forms weren't set up, right, we had to go to our doctor and prove that we were an infertile couple. Our doctor found that highly amusing, kind of things were

Shot of audience laughing.

Split screen with Lipsyte and Casey

Split screen with panel member Wayne Steinman talking and small baby

INTERVIEW CONTINUED NEW YORK PANEL
Mariana Romo-Carmona 1:35:50
so that children of gay parents who are in a very difficult situation where the parent doesn't have custody are scrutinized and we don't have the opportunity to live a so called normal life, our our lives together as parents and children have to be taken outside and we have not the support that a heterosexual family would have. For example,

Member of the SFO audience, Jean Harris, Aide to SFO Supervisor, standing and addresses the panel with her concern. She discusses the word family and states its meaning doesn't include lesbian and gays. She discusses with panel that they must make sure that lesbian and gay couples have the choice to register that relationship in city hall and are acknowledged and visible in their relationships.

REMAINING DISCUSSION WITH JEAN HARRIS AND SFO PANEL:
Ginger Casey 1:40:09
Last year in San Francisco last year in San Francisco, they attempted to pass a domestic partners ordinance and it was defeated. What makes you think that it has a better chance of getting passed again? And why do you think it was defeated?
Jean Harris 1:40:31
Well, last year, when when it was on the ballot, it was an off year election, not a lot of people turned out to vote, we had an earthquake that shut down our phone banks for 10 days, we only lost by 1600 votes. This time around, we will have the majority of the voters going to the polls, and voting for lesbian gay relationships. It's a first time in the nation last year, that acknowledgement of lesbian and gay relationships were ever on the ballot. And we only lost by 1600 votes, our communities used to losing and losing and losing and losing. But we eventually make steps forward. And we will put it back on the ballot this time. And we'll do it again and again and again, until we win.
Ginger Casey 1:41:19
Tell us whether any kind of similar legislation is being considered in New York.

New York audience applauding

Host Robert Lipsyte and Ginger in split screen.

INTERVIEW SFO Panel (Dimitri Belser)
Ginger Casey 1:45:07
what do you plan to tell him as he grows older? What have you told Elliot?
Dimitri Belser 1:45:11
We, we've been really open about our relationship, not only with our kids, but with everybody else. There's not a time when we're going to tell Elliot that were gay. I mean, he knows and Sebastian knows it's, you know, pretty obvious. Very, very early on, our kids figured out
Ginger Casey 1:45:25
that you're an infertile couple. Exactly.
Dimitri Belser 1:45:28
You know, that, you know, they watch Mike and Carol Brady, and they say, that's not me on television. Who is that? You know, I think that I think one of the things that happens a lot in is that people look at what's missing from our family, you know, we don't have a mother and that's missing, and there's no woman and family and that's missing. And I think that it's important to look at what are our strengths? What are the things that we have in our relationships we have, look at this out here, we have this incredible community, my parents raised our had their children, all alone to people. And that was it. And I have all these people I can call and I have this incredible community. And I think it's a real strength that lesbian gay parents have that is really under acknowledge, I think that my kids are incredibly lucky to be growing up with such a real, you know, community to support them and a lot of real, you know, good, good people around who they can depend on.
Ginger Casey 1:46:16
Thanks Dimitri. And thank you as well to the panel in New York.

Slate for documentary: A video production by Pam Walton

Documentary film, Out in Suburbia. Exploring the lives of several Lesbian women living together, talking about their everyday life experiences, challenges coming out, having children.

Reel ends.