NT-3373

Reel opens, No Audio Host Robert Lipsyte caught with his mouth wide open and throwing his hands up in the air. with overlay stating "Oh Goodie, The Eleventh hour is over!!!

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Show Opener

Lipsyte welcomes viewers, announces the show and introduces himself.

Montage of the the different paintings displayed at the "Facing History" exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum depicting African American life, realism and caricatures.

Slate: Facing History

High School students filing in to the Brooklyn Museum, passing by the large Facing History sign on the wall.

Sonnet Takahisa, Educator from the Brooklyn Museum, speaking with unseen unknown interviewer in the museum about the relevancy of the paintings with relation of what's currently going on in New York City.

Group of high schoolers gathered in museum studying the large paintings.

Z'in on other paintings shown which verge on caricatures, with the same type of imagery, the marginal Black person.

African American man in a wheelchair - the show's curator, Guy C. McElroy, wheels himself slowly up to a painting

McElroy close up talking with unseen unknown interviewer in the museum at the Facing History Exhibit.

Pan up and out on a caricature of two Black banjo players

Painting on the wall in gold frame named, "the Minstrel Show".

Pan the group of Black high schoolers studying the exhibit. High School girl in the group attempts to interpret the painting.

Sonnet Takhisa, Museum Educator explains that the images are a reflection of a particular period, artist or area.

Guy C. McElroy still speaking with unseen interviewer commenting on the exhibit and stating he didn't expect it to be as controversial as it has become.

Guy McElroy still speaking with interviewer, disagrees with Flam's view.

High School students gathered enraptured, studying the painting, as Takahisa explains what they're looking at.

Pan out from large painting - a depiction a female slave holding a babyt being sold or auctioned off.

McElroy in wheelchair at the museum still speaking with unseen interviewer speaks of some artists who creeate the argument that suggests the ability and equality of blacks.

Pan in on two beautiful oil paintings of African American life, as Lipsyte narrates that the paintings by Thomas Aikens and Winslow Homer are believed by McElroy to have transcended stereotypes

Close up on Forever Free as ? is heard educating the students about the Black woman artist, Edmonia Lewis.

Montage of other sculptures in the exhibit. Lipsyte narrates a bit about McElroy and how it took him five years to put the exhibit together, then a few years ago became quadriplegic from an accident, hence the wheelchair.

McElroy talking with unseen interviewer about becoming a spokesperson for yet another minority and speaks about the difficulty of his disability.

Host Robert Lipsyte sadly announces the unexpected death of Guy McElroy, Museum Curator and host of this program. He introduces his guests for tonight's program: Juan Sanchez, Artist; George C. Wolfe, Playwright and Author of "The Colored Museum, and Director and Adapter of the play, "Spunk"; Jessica Haggerdorn, Performance Artist and author of the novel "Dog Eaters".

Robert Lipsyte 20:09
Well, I mean, then then we can start thinking about revisionist criticisms, too. I mean, that could be happening, as well, in the the sense that this show is going back with its own agenda, you know, into the particular kinds of art that except, but let's talk about, you know, you're all artists of minorities in this country. Does does the, do you have to fight a stereotype to begin with?

Juan Sanchez 20:40
Well, interestingly enough, I think what this show really typifies, is the fact that mainstream culture, always have the control of what image they are going to perpetuate, it is very clear that how black are presented in these paintings, they're created by people who perpetuate some kind of an image of black people. And, and in a way, there's a lack of understanding of the culture or the or the circumstances. And so the fact that they could create these paintings, and have it open to the public for consumption is something that black people do not have much control of. And in that respect, many of us are trying to not only fight against that, but we're the ones that controlling our own image were the ones that are controlling our own identity, our own culture. And in that respect, by presenting ourselves in the most serious and concrete way, I feel that we're breaking down these kinds of stereotypes. Now, the question is, as to whether or not we are given the same platform, in terms of accessibility to a public to be as effective as some of these paintings have been in history?

Robert Lipsyte 21:52
Because one of the things that George I think is doing very interestingly in spunk is taking those stereotypes, you know, and and giving them compassion and humanity.

George C. Wolfe 22:01
Well, I don't view them as stereotypes. I think they're, they're, they're more like archetype. So I think that that that is like,

Robert Lipsyte 22:07
could you explain the difference between those two words for us?

George C. Wolfe 22:10
I think one has power and one doesn't mean No, no, no, very, in a very simple level. I think that what because there's Zora Neale Hurston stories and, and somebody because somebody says that does not mean that they fit into the same thing as The Little Rascals. So the fact that if Zora Neale Hurston character says that it's not the same team as buckwheat saying that, that that what she was trying to do was record a sound of a language at a time and a point. And that therefore her characters, I don't think it in any way I stereotypes what they are, it was really interesting at one point when we were rehearsing, researching color Museum. In terms of this, Kurt called out Ethel, who is who has silhouette as a man and we found these two photographs, and one was of Louise beavers, which was in a frilly little mammy thing. And then we found this photograph from the 1800s of this sharecropper, who was with the apron the differences that her costume had texture, there was a coarseness to it, there was there was a texture to it, whereas the Hollywood version had taken all of the texture out of it. So I think relating that to Zora Neale Hurston story, what's what she does is her stories and her characters have texture to it, the silhouette may be the same thing that we know of the dandy, the state, the silhouette may be the same thing of the abuse woman in the south. But what's going on inside the texture is completely different. So that therefore, I really don't, I think it's very different. And in that case, what is different from this art show is that here's a here's a here's a woman speaking about a culture that she knows, inside and out, versus a voyeuristic journey into a culture that somebody either looks at fondly romantically, or are arrogantly condescending.

Robert Lipsyte 23:44
I understand what you're saying. And I think you did a lot of that in dog eaters. For me, because while I still hated some of your characters, you know, I didn't see them quite the same way that I had seen Filipinos in the press as either dictators or an oppressed person or, you know, Filipino princess.

Jessica Hagedorn 24:04
Yes, yeah, I had to really think about the title, which has given me a lot of trouble, especially from my own people, because that is that's playing off a very dangerous not a stereotype, but perhaps, what can be perceived? I mean, a lot of Filipinos say, Why do you have to say that? Why do you have to bring it up? It's criminal, you know, that's not who we are. And they completely miss the point. And then other people who are not Filipino, see it and they're immediately fascinated. So I knew I was taking a big risk, and I you know, and sometimes, you just have to jump and do that. I felt comfortable with my own reasons for using it. But it's the same, that difference between archetype and stereotype. I did not see that as even necessarily a negative image. You know, and I really wanted to sort of confront that.

Robert Lipsyte 24:59
Well, what about a Maybe you brought up a good point. What about archetype and stereotype in this show? Because they both must exist? Ah, I mean, because there's texture here too in some of these paintings?

Jessica Hagedorn 25:07
Sure. Well, you know, I was fascinated by the painting of the young boy and the watermelon, and the commentary in that, and I said, Oh, my God, you know, the way that critic who's quoted in the commentary interpreted this painting, which I saw as this child sort of beaming, and this fruit, I mean, why the baggage that came with the way that critic interpreted it, and then the historical, looking back at it,

Robert Lipsyte 25:41
the dilemma of the artist,

Host Robert Lipsyte thanks guests. He encourages people to see the exhibition at the Brooklyn Museum, announces the show and introduces himself. Show end.

Funding by announcer. Charitable orgs overlay The Eleventh Hour graphic.