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Host Robert Lipsyte sitting at small round table in studio welcomes viewers to the show and introduces himself. He introduces tonight's show topic, The Legalization of Hard Drugs and the debate surrounding the issue, by talking about the possibility of buying Crack at your local drugstore.

Cutaway to the documentary video "Crack Clouds Over Hell's Kitchen". Documentary Filmaker, Kevin Atmore, interviews crack cocaine heads and drug dealers at Hell's Kitchen Park in New York.

INTERVIEW

Robert Lipsyte:

not for it, Okay, Troy, let's start with you. Are you now have you ever been a crackhead?

Troy Morell 7:12
No I have not been a crackhead.

Robert Lipsyte 7:15
But you've known some and you've got some first hand experience.

Troy Morell 7:18
Yes I've seen I know friends and family have been crackheads and still are.

Robert Lipsyte 7:23
well what leads you to believe that the problem can be changed or solved by legalization?

Troy Morell 7:29
Well, I believe it says if crack be legalized and be over the counter, it brings out everything to an open everybody will know who and what but I say that isn't the open and be like more like a fad. And instead of being a buy smoking crack, you're probably saying no, we don't want to touch it now in a way because there are people saying it's in the stores who wants to really he wants to always be on the rebellious side outside buying crack or buy a new type of drug like a black tar like a new form of crack was probably died.

Robert Lipsyte 7:59
You think it's a fad?

Troy Morell 8:01
yeah, I believe it'd be a fad it was legalized. I wouldn't I wouldn't care about it really wouldn't touch it. Most people won't touch it. Like he goes to on a by saying Oh, he buys crack from the store. They won't touch it anymore like to buy on the street, some type of new thing that get them high,

Robert Lipsyte 8:14
how come you never touched it?

Troy Morell 8:15
Because I see how it hurts people like family and friends I see them how to get hooked on it real bad, or they know how to kill somebody they get so it killed like keep constantly got to have it got to have it have more and more it absorbs them. It becomes them. And it's sickening. It's very sickening. Plus I see a lot of friends who want to sell it. they think thats the fast way to make money. It make No sense.

Robert Lipsyte 8:37
Well, we'll come back. We have more to talk about about that. Louis, let me ask you. Are you now have you ever been a crackhead?

Luis Velasquez (NT-3126) 8:43
Yeah, I use crack before I was hooked on him for two weeks, for two months. It was really sad to be in that same in that position of using this drug. But put it this way, it should be stopped. It should not be encouraged. And there's people out there that they're going to make so many changes and families like he says right? And, you know, is is really sad. You know, if we put these drugs right there in the market, you know what it's gonna be, it's gonna be like, it's gonna make it easier for them, you see, because if you make it easier for them, well, they just, oh, let me just go to just any drugstore or any, you know, any place where they have this, this, this this drug, and then just go and pick it up. And then from there what instead of just just educating people and, and a way where they can get their self esteem back and get basic values and morals back into place. You know, they just gonna encourage people to just go and get their drugs, you know, and it's it's really sad that people you know, think and that's sad because it we really try to try to figure out some kind of solution to this problem. But by educating people more and giving more support to these people because I can say well from my experience that if you sit down with these addicts and talk to them you see an even though they pick up a comeback but even though at least they know that you know is really as disease is trying to destroy you is not trying to it wants to destroy it wants you dead or wants to destroy you see and really what I'm trying to say is should be stopped not encouraged and and if by by you giving this to this this this drug right putting that right there to them it's just gonna it's just gonna make the people just go there and just get it

Robert Lipsyte 10:46
What about that right i mean the point is in a way by by legalization government city officials parents are saying it's okay

Troy Morell 10:55
where I figure isn't gay really doing nothing no crack been out for almost like almost a decade if you ask me It began in the 80s and almost going into the 90s now and nobody has done nothing to really stop it it's getting worse than violence getting worse people on the streets getting worse. So I said Let's bring out everything in open put it out on the table everybody in the table instead of saying this in a courage in a way that people forget if they want to do where they do.

Robert Lipsyte 11:19
The crime factor I mean, one of the reasons that people talk about legalization is they want to take the profit motive out of it

Luis Velasquez (NT-3126) 11:27
as soon as get put this as an example look at the methadone, or that program methadone they put that they've legalized that look, look what's happening, people walking like living zombies all around the place. So you don't see what we're trying to we're trying to say is you to legalize This is gonna you don't know, it's like experimenting, you don't really know what the outcome is going to be. Because you experiment in something, we're really just putting it out there for them to go out there and just go and use it

Robert Lipsyte 11:55
You see you see generations inslaved?

Luis Velasquez (NT-3126) 11:59
Yes I do. Because what put it this way people before they just like, like, like Freebase, right because if you cook it by yourself, and you know your school out back and relax. Now with all this rat poison and all that stuff, they put it on that crack. That's the stuff that makes them go crazy and do all these kinds of things. Because there's parents out there that they go through so many changes because they child they don't have no control over them. And and they they don't have no way of doing it, you know, no, no, no way of just trying to get some help and the only ways to the individual to say to himself well I have a problem and I have to have had to get some kind of help you know and and just take it to himself to do that. Because if the individual a person has to hit hit rock bottom rock bottom and say you know be in that situation right there hit rock bottom, because if they legalize in which you which you use it,

Troy Morell 12:55
Oh I still wouldn't use it,

Luis Velasquez (NT-3126) 12:57
That's the point You see what you won't use it. So by educating people

Robert Lipsyte 13:00
if it was legal Do you think you would have come to it sooner or more people you know, would have come to it?

Luis Velasquez (NT-3126) 13:05
Of course Forget it, legalize it, you get a free Oh, you get it with Medicaid, or whatever, you just go out there and just go get it

Robert Lipsyte 13:11
Troy's point was that part of it was I guess teenage rebelliousness or or a fad? You don't see that?

Luis Velasquez (NT-3126) 13:17
Yeah, I I agree with that point. Because some people, some young, young, young people, they, they they do they do drugs for different reasons. They do it because they want to be accepted. Or because they want to, they can't face reality, or the situation where they at, you know, what, what problems they have. And the only way of escaping is getting into drugs, you know? And is well yes, his point of view, and I have my point of view, but you see, that would encourage more people to get into drugs

Robert Lipsyte 13:49
Right or wrong. Troy is kind of reaching for a solution right now looks, do you have a thought of something to do? What would you do?

Luis Velasquez (NT-3126) 13:58
I will make, make more programs, get more people involved, you know, reach out to the community. Get a get law enforcement, or even though the police can do nothing, get these arm armies, and get all these dealers in, throw him and put them on jail, do all kinds of things, even though it's not going to stop the problem because people want to still sell jobs, no matter what. But at least we're confronting the situation and we doing something about

Robert Lipsyte 14:29
what got us straight.

Luis Velasquez (NT-3126) 14:30
What got me straight. I said to myself, well, I have a problem. And I have to do something about it because I have a good wife and two beautiful children, and it's not fair to them. And I took it upon myself, I got in a program. And I and I, you know, I got myself straight. I've been sober for nine months. And believe me, everything is looking forward. I'm looking to so many things to do you know, and do all kinds of goals that I want to reach, you know, thought out. First of all, I gotta have my help myself. I can help others, you see, but at least I know that some way, even though I'm trying to do something, you see, and even though if I do something for somebody, even though if I can do something for somebody and help them, I doubt will be my reward right there.

Interview with Morrell and Velasquez concludes. Host Lipsyte cuts to break and announces guests coming up.

Lipsyte introduces Democrat State Senator Joseph Galiber who represents the South Bronx and Democrat Congressman from Harlem, Charles B. Rangel.

INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
Charles B. Rangel (NT-3126) 21:58
realize something that is banned by the federal government. Joe,

Joseph Galiber (NT-3126) 22:01
not the understanding is certainly you're absolutely right. But there's has to be a start. You and I were amazed this morning that we have a young fellow was on the other segment was even talking about

Charles B. Rangel (NT-3126) 22:12
illegal, yet we can't have states just running around saying I'm opting out of the federal law under the criminal justice system, it means that a New York would become the Oasis, as Amsterdam is in the factory, right now to get their drugs

Joseph Galiber (NT-3126) 22:29
That's not really fair. And it's not fair. Because certainly we understand. It's just like gun control. We try to limit it in one particular area. We need national legislation, no question about it. If we were looking at the crystal ball and say, is it in the future near future? The answer's no. But certainly we should be talking about it. Historically, we've, we've spent an inordinate amount of money. If we pass the piece of build legislation in the city, state, I would hold the scenario. Sure, I would hope that if we were able to pass it, that other states would pick up and do the same thing. Oh, we'll have a constitutional amendment, it could very well be constitutional meant or perhaps the Congressman, that you that you're with some of your colleagues might very well take the position way too. But we better take another look at this, as opposed to just close your eyes.

Charles B. Rangel (NT-3126) 23:18
Are you saying that and you're talking with a former colleague whom you love dearly? Are you saying that one of the roles now at the state legislature is to pass laws and the assembly in the Senate have the governor signed into law to send a signal to the Congress to me, since when do you pass laws that that, that really amend the federal law? And how do you address the question as is the is going to be any respect in office state law, if what you're saying is that we have declared New York State, a free zone.

Robert Lipsyte 23:51
What about me, I bring morality into this,

Charles B. Rangel (NT-3126) 23:54
I don't want to do that, because I'm not going to happen that so you don't have to deal with morality

Joseph Galiber (NT-3126) 24:01
That's the label that they put on this the catch situation, you know, you pass it here. How's it going to get passed on a national level? The answer may be difficult. But we have to be talking about some things. Other things have not worked. We've got a mayor of the city of New York, who suggests that shoot down planes, we're talking about borders, we're talking about billions and billions of dollars. We're talking about a program, which can coexist, two problems, one, take the profit out, take the profit out, and also at the same time, the prevention and treatment.

Robert Lipsyte 24:31
With all respect let me let me just a second. If the federal government has no respect, there's there's a sense that this bill is not so much a positive action as as a kind of giving up we've been beaten.

Interview concludes. Host Lipsyte announces the show and introduces himself.

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