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Show opener, title of program overlays a clip from a silent movie. A caveman and cavewoman come out of their separate caves, unexpectedly they run into each other and size each other up.

Host Lynn Sherr welcomes viewers. She announces tonight's topic, male and female differences and their rapidly changing roles. She introduces her guests who are sitting with her: Carol Tavris, PhD Social Psychology and author; and Caroline Setlow, Executive Vice President of Lewis Harris Associates (national public opinion polling firm.

Silent film clip shorts with a True or False question and answer at the end of each.

Host Sherr discusses the results of the first opinion survey
regarding a woman's hormone cycle and whether it affects her performance on the job as an airline pilot, surgeon and as the president. Questions are posted and Sherr (unseen) reads the results - majority says could not interfere.

Silent film clip short.
Woman comes down from above on a rope and takes a bow. Onlookers in funny costumes applaud. A man in a leopard off the shoulder costume, enraptured, jumps into the woman's arms and she catches him. She grabs him in one arm and spins him around in the air as onlookers applaud and dance.

Silent film clip. Large group of women huddled in the sand at the beach, legs kicking, they're playing a rough game of Kick Ball. Woman kicks ball into the water and they all run and dive in to get it. Title card appears.

Another silent film short, man helps fainting woman as she tries to stand up but continuously faints, man holding woman in his arms crosses over icebergs floating in river, Tarzan type man picks up fainted woman and hold her in his arms.

INSERT INTERVIEW - CAROL TAVRIS

Lyn Sherr
Carol Tavris today What does simple strength have to do with health and survival?

Carol Tavris
It's very important. For example, if you want your husband to go out and get a saber toothed Tiger for dinner, you want to be very sure that he's strong. Actually, in most places in the world, it's women who have to be the stronger sex they have to go out there with their kids on their backs and collect 30 pounds of food and nuts and berries and whatever for the family. But that's neither here nor there. Obviously, physical strength hasn't got a whole lot to do with survival anymore. As a group, of course, men are stronger than women in grip and musculature and speed and so on. But it is actually curious that for all the talk about men being the stronger sex in many ways, they're the weaker sex, they are more susceptible to illnesses in childhood, far more boys and girls die of many childhood illnesses. And throughout adulthood, men are more susceptible to fatal illnesses, as we know heart attacks and lung disease and so on. And for many reasons, then women live longer in this society than men do.

Lyn Sherr
How nice to see the answer to that question five about natural athletic ability that neither sex has the the natural athletic ability

Carol Tavris
There's not a gene that says that men will be the football players and women will be the cheerleaders. This is very fortunate. The natural ability, business in sports is an interesting one. It's obviously in some sports men are better suited than women, I would not want to put up the best female football player in the country against those brutes that leave gracefully on a football field. But as we're learning, obviously, many other qualities go into the making of a good athlete, and those are not limited to men. coordination, and reaction time and discipline, practice. All of those are important to making a good athlete and men haven't gotten an edge over women in any of those.

Lyn Sherr
What's the bottom line on this? Then how do we deal with this new knowledge that one, sex is not necessarily better than the other because of the way they're born?

Carol Tavris
Well, I think that what is happening is, for a long time, athletics and sports were a very important part of the male role. A kid who wasn't successful in Little League, or an adolescent boy who wasn't terrific at the track, or football really felt out of it really felt less a man. And for that matter, girls and women who were good athletes felt somehow that was that jeopardize their femininity. Now, I think what we're going to find is that as sports are opening up for women, that good athletes of both sexes, and in all sports are going to be great to watch, though it was the women and gymnasts at the Olympics that got so much attention.

Lyn Sherr
Takes a little bit of the pressure off of the men too, doesn't it?

Carol Tavris
I certainly think it will.

Lyn Sherr
You talked just briefly before about the fact that men have had the corner on killer diseases that of course, that's changing too, to some extent, is it not? These are socialized things as women get more into the workforce they're getting

Carol Tavris
they're becoming Yeah, yes. And in fact, is women are smoking more now they're more likely to be getting lung cancer, those, that's one of the hazards of equality.

Lyn Sherr
So we may be seeing changes in this answer as well. Okay.

INSERT INTERVIEW - CAROLINE SETLOW
Lyn Sherr
Carolyn Setlow. What do you think these percentages mean?
Carolyn Setlow
Well, I love this question. I think it brings back all sorts of familiar memories to all of us from our school bus days. What we find here is simply that the American public is slightly more likely to encourage their son to hit back if bullied in a situation like this, then to encourage their daughters to do the same thing in the same situation. We find as we look at our results more closely, that men are slightly more likely to encourage their child either son or daughter to hit back than our women. What struck me most though I think about these findings was in fact, the difference was so small, the difference in terms of advice you'd give to your son and advice you'd give to your daughter Lyn Sherr
66% as opposed to 57.

Carolyn Setlow
That's right, which is really if you take into consideration when our margin of error is a very small difference. And what that says to me is that perhaps there is no no double standard of advice that's been dished being dished out to sons versus daughters these days. I find this encouraging what it says to me is if in fact there is no double standard, maybe some some way down the road, there won't be need for Women to sign up for special training and assertiveness, maybe we'll we'll all be be raised to respond in the same way as as opposite. That's right. Okay, I'd like to add one final note, if I could on this question, I think maybe we should all be asking ourselves the question here, which is simply is the advice to hit back for either sex really the right advice that we should be giving our children and maybe we'd be better off training our kids simply to avoid violence altogether than to teach either sex to hit back on the school bus.
Lyn Sherr
That might be a whole other test. Thank you, Carolyn.

Question 7, (on the average males do better than females in math, True) overlays footage from a scene at Mission Control at NASA.

Host Sherr reads Harris Poll question. Question on green title card.

Silent film excerpt. Title Card: True Love -
cupid standing on ledge shoots arrow at waiting woman and hits her. Man in a tattered jacket, a hobo, vigorously kissing a woman. Cave man type grabs frightened woman and begins kissing her, she pushes him away, he gets on his knees and kisses her hand, her eyes roll up.

Silent film excerpt. #10 question overlay scene from film. Men have a stronger sex drive than women. Ans. False - flashing.

INSERT INTERVIEW - SHERR AND TARVIS

Lyn Sherr
Carol, Tavris, I love that last answer because we're led to believe that playboys have all the fun in marriage is a trap for men.

Carol Tavris
Absolutely. In fact, there's been such a caterwauling and moaning from men over the centuries about marriage. And it's a wonder, you know, they have to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. You get great quotes, like Benjamin Disraeli, saying, every man should, every woman should marry and no man, when that's what we've assumed is a that marriage is something that women yearn for and that men suffer through. In fact, what it turns out is that men crave marriage, they literally cannot live without it. They're happier with it, they live longer with it, they suffer when they aren't married. And in fact, on very many studies, it shows we know that married men are healthier, physically and psychologically than single men. And the reverse is true for women. Single women are healthier physically and psychologically than married women.

Lyn Sherr
That statistic is kind of tough to deal with.

Carol Tavris
Well, yes, the healthiest people are married men and single women, which would seem to be a kind of problem, I should say that the with the group of people in this society who are the worst off are divorced women, they are the least happy. And they have the highest rates of stress and, and, and disease, as you can imagine, they have all to suffer with, with economic problems in their families, taking care of children, and so on. However, overall, marriage is a good thing for men, and maybe not such a good thing for women, which is an ominous statistic, I would say

Lyn Sherr
how about thesuffering that comes with the end of love or the end of marriage? That sort of thing?

Carol Tavris
Romance? Yes. There's an interesting thing that's happened here, this researchers have gone back to some old studies about love and attraction and who falls in love first, and what romance means to each sex. And it turns out that men are the more romantic sex, they fall in love sooner. They suffer more when a relationship ends. Which is quite a mysterious thing. Nobody talks about it very much men are supposed to be stoic and not show their feelings and not suffer. But in fact, I mean, what the heck, everybody wants to be in love. Everybody likes love. And to think that women are sort of sitting around mooning for romance that men are not is just not so

Lyn Sherr
have you done any studies about the area of polygamy the idea that men are supposed to want lots and lots of women to satisfy them, and women aren't meant to one a lot of men?

Carol Tavris
This is my favorite question in the world, I have to tell you. Turns out you see in this society now, people tend to think that men have this great sex drive. And we all remember, we all remember that argument from adolescence. But in other societies, and in other centuries, women were considered the ones who had the great sex drive. Women were the insatiable sex pots, you had to practically chain them down in their houses, or they would be attacking every man that walked by. Unfortunately, I didn't live in those centuries would have been interesting to do a study then Be that as it may, what we're finding now is that sexually in terms of physiological arousal, in terms of fantasy in terms of sexual behavior, the sexes aren't all that different. It's really a matter again, of cultural conditioning and of what you learn. female sexuality has been easier to inhibit and to repress, as we all know, from the Victorian era. Now today, for instance, you find books, teaching women how to masturbate and how to have orgasms, which are not problems that men have ever had. But as they haven't had to learn, as they haven't had to learn now, those things do come easily for men. But I think we're finding is the cultural veneer is peeled away, that women are just like men in their sexual desires.

Lyn Sherr
Okay, thank you, Carol.

INSERT INTERVIEW - SETLOW
Lyn Sherr
Carolyn Setlow, What do these figures show you?
Carolyn Setlow
Well, what we see here Lyn is that this concern that is women become more assertive men will become less attractive to them, is bought by only one in three Americans out there. And what's interesting to me is that men are no more likely to believe this than women are themselves both sexes. We rejected this statement by the same proportions. As a prediction of what's to come, we looked at this question by age. What we find here is that the under 30 group is far less worried about what will happen when women become more successful and more aggressive than their elders are. We find that two and three young people reject the notion that as women become more successful men may become less attractive to them or may even become impotent. Who knows men may even find independent women and successful women more attractive rather than less attractive because we didn't ask this and the woman alive poll I wish we had.
Lyn Sherr
Well, on that optimistic note, I think we are ready to move on to test questions 12 through 14.

Title card - home sweet home

Clip from another silent era film, The Pawn Shop with Charlie Chaplin. Chaplin putting dishes and cups instead of clothing through the clothes ringer.
Host Sherr, unseen, reads off poll question #13 relative to the clip.

INSERT INTERVIEW - TAVRIS

Lyn Sherr
Carolyn Setlow, Carol, Tavris. That's a sort of depressing answer. I must say how do we know that last one is accurate?

Carol Tavris
It is depressing. As matter of fact, we know because of a very large study that was done of how people spend their time. The study was done some years ago by a Hungarian sociologist. In 12 nations they had several 1000 people and each of these countries keep a daily minute by minute budget of how they spend their days and how they spend their weekends. It turns out that the average American father spends about 12 minutes a day on concentrated activity with his child that goes up to maybe 27 minutes on weekends. That's time spent, you know not while you're watching television or reading the paper and the child is playing with a ball. That's one to really spending time with the child. The ominous finding really is that the more children a couple has, the less time the father spends with them, the less he does around the house. House

Lyn Sherr
does it matter how old the child is, would a father spend more time with the child as it gets older? For instance?

Carol Tavris
Well, what happens is Americans tend to spend more time with their children under the age of three. Europeans spend more time with children over the age of three, they spend more time with them doing homework, for instance, helping them with school, American parents spend most of their time with their children to hauling them from place to place, in transportation, and so on.

Lyn Sherr
Now, what about women in terms of the time they're spending? What how does it affect them?

Carol Tavris
Well, a working woman, a woman who has a job, outside of her home, tends to spend more concentrated time with her children. Than then her husband does. She loses leisure time, when, when a wife works, she makes up for the things she can't do during the week. On the weekends, the husband is loafing and doing an occasional chore and playing sports or whatever, but Employed Women work on weekends. So what you end up with is for a woman who has a job outside the house, she has really three jobs, she's got to take care of the children. She's got to take care of the house, and then she has her job for pay

Lyn Sherr
How about the concept of sharing housework? Is that still seen as something where he's helping her? Or is there more of a sense of equality today?

Carol Tavris
No, it's the woman's responsibility, and both sexes regarded as the woman's responsibility. In spite of the fact for example, as we saw that women have not been helped by modern gadgets. Unless you could maybe get Charlie Chaplin to help you out in your house, it would be great. Women have found more to do in their homes. So for example, their grandmothers might have spent the, you know, one day a week doing the laundry. Now women do a laundry every day. They're spending exactly the same amount of time as they used to,

Lyn Sherr
despite all the modern things,

Carol Tavris
despite all the other things and both sexes think that's the way it should be. You know, a woman's job is in the home. It's her responsibility. The husband may help. So if you have a great husband, he'll, he'll muddle things up for you, as we saw in this clip,

Lyn Sherr
stick his hand in the dryer. Okay, thank you, Carol.

INSERT INTERVIEW - CAROLYN SETLOW
Carolyn Setlow
We see Lynn that two and five people in this country do not view motherhood as the key to a woman's happiness and woman satisfaction. The attitudes here vary dramatically by different demographic characteristics. We look around the country for example, we see that people in the south people who live in towns or in rural areas are much more likely than the rest of the country. To see kids really is the key to woman's happiness in life. There are some interesting differences by age as well. Young people are much more likely than their elders to recognize that women might find other sources of satisfaction and fulfillment than having children. So I think what we're seeing here is some states and changing stereotypes, some new role models, young people are much more likely than their elders to feel that women are not being cheated by not having kids, in fact that it's a conscious choice and that they're looking for other sources of happiness.

Lyn Sherr
Okay, thank you, Carolyn.

INSERT INTERVIEW - CAROLYN SETLOW
Lyn Sherr
Needless to say, Carolyn sat low, I would not have joined the majority in answering this one.
Carolyn Setlow
Well, these results absolutely boggle my mind to Lynne, I'll tell you, I would never predicted these results in light of other trends we saw saw toward a growing acceptance of new roles for women. We found here in fact, the majority of both sexes, men and women still feel that men ought to be the King of King of their castle. We saw lots of differences according to different demographic groups. Most traditional of oil in this country on this issue are people in the south people in rural parts of the country, people 50 years of age and older, the least well educated, lower income groups and blacks, far more liberated on this issue. Were residents of suburbs, the young, the more affluent, the better educated people who consider themselves political liberals. So again, very dramatic differences on how the public responds we saw for example, Protestants and Catholics were much more conservative on this matter of whether men should be the boss in the family then then we're Jews, for example.
Lyn Sherr
Okay, well, thank you very much for your analysis of those statistics.

Excerpt from silent era film - a woman holding an umbrella walking on a tight rope on a skyscraper, next scene- a woman standing on the shoulders of a man and twirling hula hoops in front of an audience - she stands upside down on his head with her finger all the while twirling the hula hoop in her other arm.
Sherr unseen reads the true or false question - "Most women are supported by men and therefore work for luxuries not necessities"...

Host Sher reads other poll questions and results.

Host Lynn Sherr explains the process of the Harris Poll and the samples used for the opinions. She announces the address for people who would like to see the results.

INSERT INTERVIEW - SETLOW
Lyn Sherr
Carolyn Setlow everyone seems to think men get the better deal.
Carolyn Setlow
Well, that's right. Despite changing attitudes and so many other issues that we covered this evening, we see still that a majority of the public agree that men still get the better deal in society. For every one person who argues that women get the better deal. There are three three times as many who think that men get the better deal. Moreover, what we found is the better educated people are, the more likely they are the belief that men get the better deal so they must know something more as a result of all their education. Fascinatingly, the group most likely to believe that men get the better deal are women. We saw that two and three women told us that they feel the opposite sex is better off than they are. Men are not convinced of this. As we saw in the results. Fewer than half of men think that they themselves have the best deal in society. Yet. Interestingly enough, only one in four of them are really willing to change places with women.
Lyn Sherr
Okay, Carolyn, thank you so much, Carolyn setlow and thank you, Carol Tavriz for being with us for this national television test. Men Women. What's the difference? Now I just have one more question. Why shouldn't women and men get an equal deal? I'm Lynn Sherr for women alive thank you and good night?

Excerpt from silent era film.